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TheSperminator · 09-09-2012, 04:06 PM

Good question

also like to know that!

Drummer19 · 09-09-2012, 05:18 PM

I am a firm believer that the PC does in fact obtain and maintain an erection. I have always believed your mind trumps the body though, and if your mind doesn't agree with your body your mind comes first and the PC will not function right, not allowing you to get an erection at will.

I trained my PC and BC for over a year, and I would still get ED often. I didn't matter how much I squeezed my PC my erection would never come! Because desensitization from porn was involved. My mind trumped my body.

Assuming that your ED is cause by porn, which is more than likely the case, it doesn't matter how much you train the PC muscle it can't do its job without the help of the mind. I used to sit there and kegal on spot and will not get an erection no matter what but if I got mentally stimulated (like watching porn) my mind (arousal) takes over and the PC works to bring you an erection. But it works the other way... Put yourself in front of a naked girl and you can't get it up no matter how bad you squeeze your PC. (if you have porn-induced ED)

ED seems to be more normal for older men. This could be from minor deterioration of the PC muscle so training the PC in this case would be an easier fix...
Also I heard of some erection medicines not even working on some men with porn-induced ED... (not sure where this memory is coming from)

TheSperminator · 09-09-2012, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Drummer19 View Post

I am a firm believer that the PC does in fact obtain and maintain an erection. I have always believed your mind trumps the body though, and if your mind doesn't agree with your body your mind comes first and the PC will not function right, not allowing you to get an erection at will.

I trained my PC and BC for over a year, and I would still get ED often. I didn't matter how much I squeezed my PC my erection would never come! Because desensitization from porn was involved. My mind trumped my body.

Assuming that your ED is cause by porn, which is more than likely the case, it doesn't matter how much you train the PC muscle it can't do its job without the help of the mind. I used to sit there and kegal on spot and will not get an erection no matter what but if I got mentally stimulated (like watching porn) my mind (arousal) takes over and the PC works to bring you an erection. But it works the other way... Put yourself in front of a naked girl and you can't get it up no matter how bad you squeeze your PC. (if you have porn-induced ED)

ED seems to be more normal for older men. This could be from minor deterioration of the PC muscle so training the PC in this case would be an easier fix...
Also I heard of some erection medicines not even working on some men with porn-induced ED... (not sure where this memory is coming from)

Good post!

SeaCock · 09-09-2012, 05:44 PM

Since finding this site I have started keleging to help pump blood into my penis. Most of the time I end up loosing most of my erection when doing that.

I'm fighting DE; I have to squeeze my legs together while masturbating fast pace to force myself to cum. FORCE! Cumming during sex is really a thing of the past. I'm trying stop squeezing my legs together to force myself to cum. I get right to the point I think...here it cums...but that is as close as it gets. Even during sex...I get so close...feels like any second, but it never gets there.

I hoped kelegs would help me stay hard long enough to just keep pumping away without me forcing it, but I end loosng the erection. About 20 minutes is as long as I can keep it up. My dick is sore too from pumping on it like that...waiting for the orgasim to come.

TheSperminator · 09-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Kegels, edging and a healthy lifestyle .. That's the best advice I can give you

Don't give up! Read a lot here .. Ask questions. We're all here to help each other!

bigbookofpenis · 09-09-2012, 06:15 PM

hi Drummer19 thanks for the reply... your reasoning is logical and i totally agree that "mind trump the body"

this thesis is an open question, i am just saying what if...

despite common believe (mine including) i was unable to find written evidence that PC MUSCLE would be responsible for obtaining and maintaining erection in healthy males... thats why i asked here to get some solid evidence from people who have experience... most science papers only mention dilation and constriction of vains in penis shaft due to chemical messangers (nitric oxide, cGMP) and interpenile pressure (inside shaft) to constrict the outgoing veins...

there is also some interesting evidence like medical condition PRIAPISM (chronic unability do dilate constricted veins leading to hours of erection - i doubt PC MUSCLE is involved there)

or MORTAL ERECTION (by pressure on spinal nerves and brain regions hung people get erections post mortem - again unlikely to have PC MUSCLE involved)

viagra, vacuum pumps, cockrings all work with just interpenile pressure

i dont doubt PC MUSCLE is obtaining and maintain errection in many males... the question is... is that correct and natural way ? shouldnt the penis alone be able to do the work in healthy male ? isnt the need to use PC MUSCLE to obtain and maintain erection already a sign of something detoriating in erection quality ?

your own experience might be false explanation:

I trained my PC and BC for over a year, and I would still get ED often. I didn't matter how much I squeezed my PC my erection would never come! Because desensitization from porn was involved. My mind trumped my body.

that could be explained as desentization of CNS, Brain (dopamine, serotonin), porn addiction might have signs not uncommon to depression... (i know all this from my experience) this all might be involved in deficient performance of chemical and secretionary systems driving libido and erection... not necesarilly pointing to PC MUSCLE AT ALL

ED seems to be more normal for older men. This could be from minor deterioration of the PC muscle so training the PC in this case would be an easier fix...

well PC muscle strenghtening might improve the ED in older man... but than again the real cause of ED might be a myriad of age related things other than PC MUSCLE - blood hypertension, diabetes, low testosterone, liver and secretionary systems wear... all of them damaging the natural ability of penis veins to dilate and constrict on brains/CNS command...

iam not saying PC MUSCLE cannot obtain erection iam just asking... is it natural to use PC MUSCLE to obtain and maintain erections ? for the sake of argument iam talking about young helathy males in their prime sexual performance (18-35) - lets not discuss ED of 50 years old people - it can be thousands of reasons... from bad life habits to serious medical conditions

SeaCock · 09-09-2012, 09:05 PM

I'm trying to find path though my issues DE. For the most part I don't really have ED issues. I don let my head get the best of me at times. My GF is 12 years my junior...I'm 53 this week. I not ugly, most women say I have that outdoorsy handsome look, but she is beautiful. So that works on me at times.

I have lived a pretty clean life. Quit drinking at age 20 and quit tobacco in my mid 40's. No drugs, not even pain meds. I avoid them as well. Been in the gym for almost two years. I have 16" upper arms, leg press 700lb for 5 reps, 200lbs bench press 5 reps, curl & tri machine 100lbs 10 reps, leg extensions and leg curls max out the machines 10reps. 5' 10" 182lbs. So I'm not in bad condition.

I do suffer from hereditary sleeping issues. I can only sleep for 5 hours and then I'm off and running for the day. If I take a nap, I'm up for the next 20 or so hours...so no naps. My dad and great uncle both have had the same problem.

Personal injury history is so long most don't believe the stories I have. I never lost a "this happened to me" contest. I've had nearly every finger, both hands, feet, legs, arms' head sewn up...all at different times. Cut one finger off, almost got another one, one other time. No one massive injury...seriously...the list is very long. Car wrecks, motorcycle accidents, fell out of a car on the interstate at age 2. Stomped and kicked bulls and horses. Numerous head injuries!

Drummer19 · 09-09-2012, 11:25 PM

I don't think it is natural to "have to voluntarily squeeze your PC to maintain an erection". It is however natural for the PC to be used to help. The PC does have other natural functions such as holding back pee and stopping your flow once you start, so it has penile uses already.
The PC isn't the sole responsibility to obtain and maintain an erection, but is necessary even as only a part of a larger group of muscles and veins.
Your body uses a system of parts to do any function.

Lets have someone rip out or injure their PC and chime in. This would give us an immediate answer. I had a friend actually who in a sense pulled his taint muscle out of wack a few years ago when having sex. He said it felt like a rubber band snapping and shriveling up into itself. This muscle may be the PC or something extremely close but he lost the ability to gain an erection entirely for 3 years. He went to doctors (sex doctors, chiropractors, etc.) all around the states but no one could figure it out. If it was a PC/related muscle then it would disprove your theory...

Years of personal experience and figuring out how to relieve ED and Pre-E on your own gives you a keener eye on what works and what doesn't. Experience won't give you science to back it up however. So it is like figuring out the answer to a math problem and knowing all of the variables, but missing some of the coefficients.

bigbookofpenis · 09-10-2012, 01:49 AM

the discussion is open for all opinions... please do join in everyone... FOR or AGAINST my theory...

btw Drummer19 i also had an idea to test PC MUSCLE necesity for erection... i thought about obtaining some local muscle relaxant and apply it on PC MUSCLE and watch porn (PORN is bad for your erection in long term, this would be just for "scientific" purposes)... than i could ases if i can get erection while the PC MUSCLE would be disabled or severly weakened by local muscle relaxant... this test has two problems:

1) i couldnt find any over-the-counter muscle relaxant (is all seems to be very stong drugs, available only to hospital personel)
2) if i applied local muscle relaxant to my PC MUSCLE - in my case i trained my body to totally relly on PC MUSCLE for erection - the chances that in my case the erection would not happen but in other healthy male without the developed PC MUSCLE dependancy is still possible - thus my test wouldnt really prove anything, because iam not a healthy test subject

anyway anoybody here who also doubts the PC MUSCLE necesity to obtain and maintain errection ? now its 1:1 me vs drummer19

haha

Drummer19 your story may prove your point, but there is evidence like PRIAPISM and MORTAL ERECTION which also point to other directions than PC MUSCLE... also ill try to go through some more science papers on male sexual response if i can find any mentioning of PC MUSCLE...

Pegasus · 09-10-2012, 02:44 AM

The use of kegels as a treatment for ed ,( often first line) is mainstream and supported by mainstream research, That is not to say it is foolproof or 100% successfull. Most ed is regarded as having a large pysc commponent and of course kegels may not help all physiccal issues . However they are well supported as being a usefull tool and are low risk

litopita · 09-10-2012, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by bigbookofpenis View Post

hi following is a simple question that might concern anybody in ERECTILE DISFUNCTION FORUM because it is simply trying to find answer to causes of erection therefore causes or erection disfunction likewise... i hope nobody will delete it cause it tries to shed light on connection between ERECTION and PC MUSCLE CONTRACTION (Kegeling) as they seem to play major role in ERECTION and EJACULATION both ! Therefore anything concerning PC MUSCLE is related to ERECTION DISFUNCTION and also EJACULATION DISFUNCTION !

i quickly ran through wikipedia and few webs on viagra and ERECTION DISFUNCTION and contrary to popular believe it seams that erection and its obtaining and maintaining is not directly related to PC muscle contraction (Kegeling) at least not as much as many believe...

about induction of erection, science papers say that erection is obtained through vasodilation and vasoconstriction inside the penis shaft alone... i couldnt find any mention of PC MUSCLE playing any role in erection obtaining... its mostly chemicaly induced dilation of incoming veins and also constriction of outgoing veins using chemical agents like nitric oxide a cGMP plus interpenile pressure (inside shaft) on outgoing vains... it seems to all happen solely inside penis shaft... without need to help it by flexing PC MUSCLE... thats why viagra or cockrings (after use of vacuum pump) work for most man independent on their PC MUSCLE condition... the entrapment of blood inside penis is done without help of PC MUSCLE...

only one paper says about maintaining erection: As the penis becomes erect, the penile body pressure increases rapidly to about 90mmHg. Perineal muscle contraction results in further increase in penile body pressure to greater than 120mmHg (suprasystolic pressure), which results in full rigidity and elevation of the penis to greater than 90 degrees...

that would mean that up to 90 degree erection (around 90mmHg pressure inside penis) you dont even need PC MUSCLE to maintain erection...

shure PC MUSCLE can give you that extra blood injection and pressure (above 90mmHg) to get a ROCK-HARD erection but it might be regarded as bonus... an option... not a necesity...

this would have many theoretical implications, mostly:

1) if you have trouble maintaining erection, rather than excercising your PC MUSCLE to become Arnold Schwarzenegger to use it as an erection cork-stopper (to constrict blood from leaving penis), you might try to observe if there are not other medical reasons why your penis lost its natural skill to maintain blood entrapment on its own without use of PC MUSCLE backup - these may include diabetes, psychological ED due to PORN OVERUSE, liver problems, decreased libido, chemical imbalance (dopamine, serotonin,...) etc.

2) this theory (that PC MUSCLE is not necessary for obtaining and maintaining satisfactory erection) would suggest that big percentage of ED is mistreated by prescribing PC MUSCLE STRENGHTENING for patients whos ED is actually caused by psychological factors (PORN DESENTIZATION of central nervous system and brain chemical imbalance, depression, anxiety) or enviroinmental factors (poor diet, overweight, diabetes, chemical imbalance in liver and urinary system)

therefore by training yourself to use PC MUSCLE as cork-stopper to prevent blood from leaking out of your penis, you actually never really find out what was the real cause of the blood leaking and why your penis become weak at retaining the blood... you only fix the visible symptoms (poor erection) with PC MUSCLE cork-stopper and never discover the underlying problem that caused your ED in first place... these might include some very serious medical and psychological problems...

and i know what iam talking about i have trouble maintaining erection unless i use PC MUSCLE as blood pump to keep my penis erect - now for the first time i am starting to believe that my inability to stay erect is not related to PC MUSCLE at all - its caused by 22 YEARS OF PORN USE (since 9 years of age to 31 years of age). The porn desentisized my CNS and over the years i developed ED through chemical imblance in my brain, CNS and liver/urinary tract... now my brain basically lost control over penis ability retain blood on its own and i must heavily rely on PC MUSCLE to maintain my erection...

i say instead of training my PC MUSCLE to become harder and better at injecting and subsequently stopping blood from leaving penis... ill try to fix my penis to retain the blood on its own using just vein dilation and constriction inside penis shaft... ill QUIT PORN FOR GOOD and wait at least 6-12 months if my BRAIN, CNS and urinary tract chemical balance recover so ill no longer need to relly on PC MUSCLE with my errections...

i believe contrary to popular notion that PC MUSCLE shouldnt be used as erection obtaining and maintaining "device"... a healthy individual should be able to get and maintain errection without the use of PC MUSCLE...

i may be wrong, please tell me what is your opinion on true PC MUSCLE role in ERECTION alas ERECTION DISFUNCTION... is PC MUSCLE meant to be our natural erection device or is it just "a replacement fix" prescribed for weak penises and weak libido (brain, cns, liver imbalance)...

i dare to ask is PC muscle necessary for obtaining and maintaining an erection ?

thanks everybody

Correct analysis. Doing kegel exercises by themselves to have stronger PC muscles CANT cure ED. Either physical or mental ED. Even Superman's pc muscles CANT cure ED, let alone swaznegger. What kegel exercises and stronger PC muscles do is that they give you better "erection quality" once you have obtained the erection in the first place. Also, someone with stronger PC muscles has better ability to retain and "control" their erections and ejaculation. But that's about it. He cant single handedly create an erection. Especially if he has a "barrier" either in his mind or body. That must be dealt with first in order to to see benefits of kegel exercises.

Blood flow... engorgement... retainment. This is the simple concept I tried to explain to a poster on here who instead became "angry" at how I was over simplifying the erection process haha... Its that simple actually.

Padawan787 · 09-10-2012, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by litopita View Post

Correct analysis. Doing kegel exercises by themselves to have stronger PC muscles CANT cure ED. Either physical or mental ED. Even Superman's pc muscles CANT cure ED, let alone swaznegger. What kegel exercises and stronger PC muscles do is that they give you better "erection quality" once you have obtained the erection in the first place. Also, someone with stronger PC muscles has better ability to retain and "control" their erections and ejaculation. But that's about it. He cant single handedly create an erection. Especially if he has a "barrier" either in his mind or body. That must be dealt with first in order to to see benefits of kegel exercises.

Blood flow... engorgement... retainment. This is the simple concept I tried to explain to a poster on here who instead became "angry" at how I was over simplifying the erection process haha... Its that simple actually.

He didn't get angry, he merely correctly pointed out that you had justified none of your claims and that you did oversimplify ED. Taking a swipe at another member because he knows how to properly present and source an argument is ridiculous and petty.

litopita · 09-10-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Padawan787 View Post

He didn't get angry, he merely correctly pointed out that you had justified none of your claims and that you did oversimplify ED. Taking a swipe at another member because he knows how to properly present and source an argument is ridiculous and petty.

You are doing it as well man! Like i said above, ED is actually that SIMPLE.

Talking about presenting an argument, read the first post in this thread. Now that is a well presented argument (i even repped it). And I would also that think sourcing links to wikipedia articles that the person you are arguing with has personally edited a number of times is funny

Padawan787 · 09-10-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by litopita View Post

You are doing it as well man! Like i said above, ED is actually that SIMPLE.

Talking about presenting an argument, read the first post in this thread. Now that is a well presented argument (i even repped it). And I would also that think sourcing links to wikipedia articles that the person you are arguing with has personally edited a number of times is funny

Um, no, one wikipedia article was linked and it wasn't edited by the member in question. The other sites linked were pubmed, webmd, the mayo clinic and the Cleveland clinic. Reliable, reputable sources that you have brushed aside.

Here, check out the changelog on the wikipedia page in question: Erectile dysfunction: Revision history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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is PC muscle necessary for obtaining and maintaining an erection ?

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