[billyglidejr]

the REAL reason that test goes down when consuming soy is, when you have high test your body cant use it all so free test (test floating in your blood, not being used) is high. so natually test levels are high. but this doesnt matter cuz the test you have, only a percentage is being used to interact with body tissue. now when you bring soy into the equation, your body opens more test receptor sites in the tissues. now the test levels go down because more is actually interacting with tissue and making muscles grow and what not. its like say you had a big barrel of test just sitting there, yea you can be proud at how much test you had. but only when you punch new holes in that barrel, you actually start pouring and spilling test all over the ground, now test is interacting with the ground and making it grow and what not. yea test in that barrel is going down but its not gone its all over the ground now, getting used. if soy lowered all your bodies test levels then people would stop growing beards and getting erections from the slightest consumption of soy products. i mix my whey protein with soy milk when i drink it, i eat tofu, i use soy milk with my cereal. i have a thick beard, big hard on, and im ripped.
key:
barrel=free test levels
soy= makes body build new test receptor sites (i.e punches holes in that barrel)
ground=body tissue using the test

[kingpole]

Originally Posted by billyglidejr

the REAL reason that test goes down when consuming soy is, when you have high test your body cant use it all so free test (test floating in your blood, not being used) is high. so natually test levels are high. but this doesnt matter cuz the test you have, only a percentage is being used to interact with body tissue. now when you bring soy into the equation, your body opens more test receptor sites in the tissues. now the test levels go down because more is actually interacting with tissue and making muscles grow and what not. its like say you had a big barrel of test just sitting there, yea you can be proud at how much test you had. but only when you punch new holes in that barrel, you actually start pouring and spilling test all over the ground, now test is interacting with the ground and making it grow and what not. yea test in that barrel is going down but its not gone its all over the ground now, getting used. if soy lowered all your bodies test levels then people would stop growing beards and getting erections from the slightest consumption of soy products. i mix my whey protein with soy milk when i drink it, i eat tofu, i use soy milk with my cereal. i have a thick beard, big hard on, and im ripped.
key:
barrel=free test levels
soy= makes body build new test receptor sites (i.e punches holes in that barrel)
ground=body tissue using the test

Soy causes hypothyroidism, bloating and makes you fat. When thyroid levels decline so do test levels. This is interesting though do you have a link to back up what you wrote? The whey may be offsetting the soy a bit. Fermented soy is not as bad.

[billyglidejr]

no unless you can find anabolic primer (the book) online. i do most of my research off line. if you get the book, go to the table of contents and look up making the most out of your natual test. it wasnt the whey because i only took whey a few times. i personally dont prefer dairy. i mixed soy protein with soy milk for months at a time. its when you get all your soy protein from soy concentrate that it causes any kinda estrogen conversion. even when it does its on a so small level. i know huge body builders that get most of there protein from soy and chicken, or fish. my buddy is severly lactose intollerant and has a supplement program with soy as the backbone, he is a cut 265, 6'2". bottom line is if you drink soy milk and grow boobs believe me you woulda anyway. now i wouldnt say go over board with it because there are better more bioactive sources like nuts, whey, a good diet, hemp, rice or chia seed powder. im just saying people are painting a pretty dark picture, its like saying if you drink green tea test will go down and and you will become a anorexic looking slum lord, because green tea does lower IGF-1 levels which play a important roll with test metabolism and muscle growth.

[epsilon]

This is a heated discussion not just in PE forum but also in other forum I'm in, Due to the soy(not fermented) High content of Estrogen,

here are some link: Soy Makes You Gay | Right Wing Watch

Here's another article that really stirred our thoughts? If in early age soy would be taken in a large a mount could it turn your kids gay?

Soy is making kids 'gay'


It's better to to cautious better not take soy until theory proven not valid.

[billyglidejr]

believe me, i used to be on the same side of the fence as you. i dodged everything soy related. im currently studying to be a supplement fomulatician (human performance degree, dietician). i read so many studies pro and against soy, believe me i did the study on myself. the benefits far outway the consequences. if its that scary to you just take soy that isnt concentrate, then theres no way it will turn you gay or give you a vagina or whatever. broccolli lowers estrogen, if i eat enough of it will i become a caveman or incredible hulk looking guy.

[going411by7]

Originally Posted by billyglidejr

the REAL reason that test goes down when consuming soy is, when you have high test your body cant use it all so free test (test floating in your blood, not being used) is high. so natually test levels are high. but this doesnt matter cuz the test you have, only a percentage is being used to interact with body tissue. now when you bring soy into the equation, your body opens more test receptor sites in the tissues. now the test levels go down because more is actually interacting with tissue and making muscles grow and what not. its like say you had a big barrel of test just sitting there, yea you can be proud at how much test you had. but only when you punch new holes in that barrel, you actually start pouring and spilling test all over the ground, now test is interacting with the ground and making it grow and what not. yea test in that barrel is going down but its not gone its all over the ground now, getting used. if soy lowered all your bodies test levels then people would stop growing beards and getting erections from the slightest consumption of soy products. i mix my whey protein with soy milk when i drink it, i eat tofu, i use soy milk with my cereal. i have a thick beard, big hard on, and im ripped.
key:
barrel=free test levels
soy= makes body build new test receptor sites (i.e punches holes in that barrel)
ground=body tissue using the test

Yeah, billyglidejr! Me too, all except the thick beard!! But that's the Indian (native american) in my blood. Lots of soy protein mixed with whey protein, tofu up to the ears, soy burgers, soy cheese, and on and on. Keeps me pretty ripped for a guy my age. Can't forget the green tea--and lots of vitamins and minerals.

[Thimsile]

I remember when soy milk was popular. It just makes girls go through puberty when there like 4 years old. Stay away from it.

[epsilon]

I have nothing against soy specially for Fermented One, but large consumption might lead to imbalance, especially androgen's level which a kid needs in its puberty period to be a man ..

I'll will just quote some important content of the reading I have stumbled few years ago. hope this will just make you aware that large quantity might make a difference specially to infant, since their immune system are not that strong.

Antinutrients and Toxins in Soy
Scientists who have studied the use of soy protein in animal feeds over the years have discovered a number of components in soy that cause poor growth, digestive distress, and other health problems.24-27 To list just a few of these: Protease inhibitors interfere with protein digestion and have caused malnutrition, poor growth, digestive distress, and pancreatitis.28 Phytates block mineral absorption, causing zinc, iron, and calcium deficiencies.29-34 Lectins and saponins have caused leaky gut and other gastrointestinal and immune problems.35-36 Oxalates-surprisingly high in soy-may cause problems for people prone to kidney stones and women suffering from vulvodynia, a painful condition marked by burning, stinging, and itching of the external genitalia.37, 38 Finally, oligosaccharides give soy its notorious reputation as a gas producer. Although these are present in all beans, soy is such a powerful "musical fruit" that the soy industry has identified "the flatulence factor" as a major obstacle that must be overcome for soy to achieve full consumer acceptance.39, 40

Soy Allergens
Soy is one of the top eight allergens that cause immediate hypersensitivity reactions such as coughing, sneezing, runny nose, hives, diarrhea, difficulty swallowing, and anaphylactic shock. Delayed allergic responses are even more common and occur anywhere from several hours to several days after the food is eaten. These have been linked to sleep disturbances, bedwetting, sinus and ear infections, crankiness, joint paint, chronic fatigue, gastrointestinal woes, and other mysterious symptoms.52, 53

Soy and the Thyroid: A Pain in the Neck
More than 70 years of human, animal, and laboratory studies show that soybeans put the thyroid at risk. The chief culprits are the plant hormones in soy known as phytoestrogens or isoflavones.57-59 The United Kingdom's Committee on Toxicology has identified several populations at special risk: infants on soy formula, vegans who use soy as their principal meat and dairy replacements, and men and women who self-medicate with soy foods and/or isoflavone supplements in an attempt to prevent or reverse menopausal symptoms, cancer, or heart disease.60

Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice. If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may never take place.71-74 To date, most of the evidence damning soy formula can be found only in animal studies, because investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all. Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly common. Sperm counts are also falling.75-79

Source: Mothering Magazine Article: Whole Soy Story The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food


Well that's the reason why I'm skeptical about the soy being feed to youngster.


Hope this help...

[billyglidejr]

yea i hear that, i wouldnt give soy to a infant also because soy is one of the most common allergies on earth. im mildly allergic to it, when i over do it my face gets real itchy. thats about it though.

[kingpole]

Originally Posted by billyglidejr

no unless you can find anabolic primer (the book) online. i do most of my research off line. if you get the book, go to the table of contents and look up making the most out of your natual test. it wasnt the whey because i only took whey a few times. i personally dont prefer dairy. i mixed soy protein with soy milk for months at a time. its when you get all your soy protein from soy concentrate that it causes any kinda estrogen conversion. even when it does its on a so small level. i know huge body builders that get most of there protein from soy and chicken, or fish. my buddy is severly lactose intollerant and has a supplement program with soy as the backbone, he is a cut 265, 6'2". bottom line is if you drink soy milk and grow boobs believe me you woulda anyway. now i wouldnt say go over board with it because there are better more bioactive sources like nuts, whey, a good diet, hemp, rice or chia seed powder. im just saying people are painting a pretty dark picture, its like saying if you drink green tea test will go down and and you will become a anorexic looking slum lord, because green tea does lower IGF-1 levels which play a important roll with test metabolism and muscle growth.

When they tested green tea they were using a soy vehile to test the green tea. Soy renders green tea almost useless. When they used just green tea the test and dht levels rose. Insulin levels declined a bit. When insulin is saturating the body in the case of hyperinsulineremia from eating to much starch you over work the pancreas and thus begin type two diabetes.

Im more concerned about soy lowering thyroid levels than test levels. This is a proven fact more so than it lowering test levels. We have an epedemic of type two diabetes in the USA. Hypothyroidism causes diabetes, soy causes hypothyroid disease by blocking thyroxin the hormone that clocks your metabolism. When thyroid hormone goes down so does testosterone.
As side from most whey protein being junk by the use of sucrolose most whey is lactose free. Sucrolose free whey is a viable protein option unless your a vegetarian. Then there is rice protein mix like you stated. Nuts and seeds eat them raw.