[papaki]

No kingpole.this days we have less work to do with the university so I have many free time.Not so dificult these days....

[Hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by scientificapproach

Ah thanks for your posts guys!

Yes I can't see how PEing when your turtled is going to do much except turtle it more, and I presume you wont grow when your turtling beacuse something in there has been overtrained?!

Interesting point fendoll. One thing I had heard when wearing an extender is that constant force cancels cell death (apoptosis) and then switches the mechanism to cell renewal. I personally didn't experience this when I used my extender, I just wore my penis out, which makes me think perhaps this constant force has to be tiny, anything with more force seems to require rest days IMO.

My opinion on extenders is that they are great as a supplement to PE just like pumping or hanging but cannot be the foundation of your PE routine, they don't have a way to exercise all the different areas to promote good growth or EQ. The reason I say this is because of the lack of heat that is applied during the routine, your unit is pretty much at a cooled state the entire time. The most important part of any routine is the warmup, without this the tissues are not relaxed and can't be stretched or deformed. Just think of a piece of steel, at room temp it is as strong as it can get but once it heats up it can be formed into almost any shape. This goes for a wide variety of materials and they are in our bodies to, the lack of heat during long duration stretches could account for the lack of gains produced by them.

When the BC muscle has been overtrained it will not work correctly, it contains some smooth muscle at the end of the CC's. If the smooth muscle in the CC's becomes overtrained it will not let any blood pass into them so you get your turtle effect or weak erection. The smooth muscle needs rest to grow and recover but the Tunica is a different monster on it's own. Ever how you decide to deal with the Tunica it will require a great deal of heat to make it work effectively.

[Hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by scientificapproach

OK, when I hung weights I was informed that rest days were alien to PE, and that PE was about deforming tough parts of the body (namely ligaments and tunica). Now I tried this approach for 6 weeks hanging several hours a day, at the end I measured and was down a 1/4 inch from my best errection length. I assumed hanging this way wasnt working for me. I switched to wearing an extender for as many hours a day as I could (3-7hrs) for 7 weeks. Again not a single rest day. This had the same end result!

I have also performed manual PE for 3 months with rest days every few days, pumping for 6 weeks with a rest days every 4-7 days and manual PE with no rest days.

I feel like I have exhausted the possibilities. And what I still find confusing are the occasional comments I read that constant PE is a definite must (because to PE is about deforming and rest only hinders this).

SA

Sounds like you have a tuff Tunica indeed, maybe refine your warmup and go from there. From a glance it would seem that the Tunica requires no rest but I would suppose the other tissues attached to it would need some sort of break. As long as your PI's are good then "hang" in there. You will need to find the required intensity and/or time to produce an overtrained state eventually, I can become overtrained on a mon,wed, fri with the weekends off and it doesn't take much for me to get there. Just like riding bikes, I know how hard I can push to make it 10 miles at speed but if I go passed that point I will burnout and lose time. If I make it 10 miles and feel I have more left then I will bump it up a little the next time out. To keep you from having to keep increasing intensity then breaks are need at some point to decondition your unit, this topic would require another thread though. Hope that made some sense.

[scientificapproach]

HT. Yes, thankyou, you have touched upon what I was trying to get at in this thread. When I first read about PI's I thought they were such a wonderful discovery, and I still do. I just find it an intersting issue that if you (like me) seem to find it quite easy to go into the negative PI zone from your PE (either too much intensity, or duration, or both) then this seems to conflict with the more heavy approach which many adopt to "deform" ligs and tunica. Some structures require constant work and others need rest?! Catch 22!

I once spoke to a guy who said he gained an inch in a year from just 10 mins of pumping at fairly low pressure (3-5hg). I see this as the perfect example of gaining while sticking exclusively to the PI rule. But then there are those like Bib and DLD who didn't rest and did alot of high intensity work and yet gained. I personally see these approaches as opposites. Maybe this is where the individual can react so differently to the same approach!

My only worry about PI's is that, yes maybe you are not overtraining (as HT says not overtraining the smooth muscle in the BC muscle and CC's) but are you doing enough to attack the stronger layers (cause growth or stretch/deform) such as the tunica?! I think the ultimate indicator is size. When I hung and went against PI's and saw a decrease in errect size, then I cannot help but feel this approach is not a wise choice, if you see growth then great! Perhaps even light routines do effect the tunica, its just a slow process

What interested me was maybe there is a middle ground. I did try a very light routine where I rested much more than I PEed, and I did seem to notice a fuller flaccid size (positive PI) but then is this enough to promote growth. The other end was when I did loads of PE (hanging and extenders) and then saw lots of negative PI's but pushed forward to deform tough structures, and then saw shrinkage. Perhaps if one were to get some rest but try to PE more days that he rests this is the ideal zone. Of course you could argue that if I carried on either the "light" or "heavy" approach for longer I may have seen gains, however I guess after a certain point you question is this sensible if you are only seeing negative results (as was the case with my heavier approach)

I think what I am trying to get at is sometimes it feels like one has two choices, to follow the PI rule which usually means less and lighter, or to go abit more "heavy" and increase force and duration and also have less rest and aim to attack tougher structures. I think right now I am inclined to go lighter and just go for a long period of time!

HT, about the heat issue. Do you feel extenders pumping and hanging would be more beneficial (at least to tunica growth) if one were to warm up well first? You are right, I never warmed up for wearing and extender or pumping, and only warmed up for my first daily haning session.

Thanks