[JonPop]

That's lots of stuff. Um...Don't eat the "Yellow Snow?"

[Double Down]

Ya it sounds like allot but it is only three pills. I broke it down for the dosage of the supplements, and yes...I will stay away form the "Yellow Snow"

[phallic1]

I have seen some concern regarding hair loss and dht levels being discussed. Here is a link to a site that offers much information and studies in relation to this subject.

Look under the headers titled "updates/news" and "steroids/hairloss"

Regrow Your Hair!!

I apologize in advance to the admin of pegym if it is wrong for me to link the above site.

[JonPop]

Naw man. It's dealing with the topic of this thread, so it's all right. But thanks for being concerned. The study done about black tea/green tea and soy, was very interesting.

[kingpole]

Too much Frank Zappa JP! Don't you eat that yellow snow! Don't you go where the huskies go!

[Double Down]

Bular!.....Bular!.....Bular!.....Bular!....Bular!

[kingpole]

To tell you the truth i can care less about lsoig whaat 3 hairs i got left, hair is overated. I enjoy having a rather large penis. This is a great trade off. If in deed it is DHT that is responcible for hair loss.

[pe2damax]

Here is some studies I found on Bodybuilding.com referring to green tea's effect on T and DHT levels:

Inhibition of aromatase activity by green tea extract catechins and their endocrinological effects of oral administration in rats.

Satoh K, Sakamoto Y, Ogata A, Nagai F, Mikuriya H, Numazawa M, Yamada K, Aoki N.

Department of Toxicology, The Tokyo Metropolitan Research Laboratory of Public Health, 24-1 Hyakunincho 3 chome, Shinjuku-ku, Japan. sato@tokyo-eiken.go.jp

We orally administered polyphenone-60 (P-60), green tea extract catechins, in the diet (0, 1.25 and 5%) to male rats for 2, 4 and 8 weeks initiated at 5 weeks old. It was found that a 5% dose to male rats for 2-8 weeks induced goiters and decreased weights of the body, testis and prostate gland. Endocrinologically, elevating plasma thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone levels and decreasing tri-iodothyronine (T(3)) and thyroxine (T(4)) levels were induced by this treatment. We also found that P-60 as a whole and some of its constituents exhibited inhibitory effects on human placental aromatase activity by in vitro assay. The concentration of P-60 that required producing 50% inhibition of the aromatase activity (IC(50) value) was 28 microg/ml. The IC(50) values of (-)-catechin gallate (Cg), (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC), (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCg) and (-)-gallocatechin gallate (GCg) were 5.5 x 10(-6), 1.0 x 10(-4), 6.0 x 10(-5) and 1.5 x 10(-5) M, respectively. (-)- Epicatechin gallate (ECg) at 1.0 x 10(-4) M produced 20% inhibition. (-)-Epicatechin (EC) and (+)-catechin (CT) exhibited no effects on aromatase activity. The endocrinological changes observed in vivo were in conformity with antithyroid effects and aromatase inhibition effects of P-60 and its constituents.

Structure-activity relationships for inhibition of human 5alpha-reductases by polyphenols.

Hiipakka RA, Zhang HZ, Dai W, Dai Q, Liao S.

Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, The Ben May Institute for Cancer Research, and The Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research MC6027, University of Chicago, 5841 S. Maryland, Chicago, IL 60637, USA.

The enzyme steroid 5 alpha-reductase (EC 1.3.99.5) catalyzes the NADPH-dependent reduction of the double bond of a variety of 3-oxo-Delta(4) steroids including the conversion of testosterone to 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone. In humans, 5 alpha-reductase activity is critical for certain aspects of male sexual differentiation, and may be involved in the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia, alopecia, hirsutism, and prostate cancer. Certain natural products contain components that are inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase, such as the green tea catechin (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG). EGCG shows potent inhibition in cell-free but not in whole-cell assays of 5 alpha-reductase. Replacement of the gallate ester in EGCG with long-chain fatty acids produced potent 5 alpha-reductase inhibitors that were active in both cell-free and whole-cell assay systems. Other flavonoids that were potent inhibitors of the type 1 5alpha-reductase include myricetin, quercitin, baicalein, and fisetin. Biochanin A, daidzein, genistein, and kaempferol were much better inhibitors of the type 2 than the type 1 isozyme. Several other natural and synthetic polyphenolic compounds were more effective inhibitors of the type 1 than the type 2 isozyme, including alizarin, anthrarobin, gossypol, nordihydroguaiaretic acid, caffeic acid phenethyl ester, and octyl and dodecyl gallates. The presence of a catechol group was characteristic of almost all inhibitors that showed selectivity for the type 1 isozyme of 5 alpha-reductase. Since some of these compounds are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders. However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.

Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate.

Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S.

Ben May Institute for Cancer Research, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, and Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research, University of Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.

Green tea polyphenols, especially the catechin, (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), have been proposed as a cancer chemopreventative based on a variety of laboratory studies. For clear assessment of the possible physiological effects of green tea consumption, we injected pure green tea catechins ip into rats and studied their acute effects on endocrine systems. We found that EGCG, but not related catechins, significantly reduced food intake; body weight; blood levels of testosterone, estradiol, leptin, insulin, insulin-like growth factor I, LH, glucose, cholesterol, and triglyceride; as well as growth of the prostate, uterus, and ovary. Similar effects were observed in lean and obese male Zucker rats, suggesting that the effect of EGCG was independent of an intact leptin receptor. EGCG may interact specifically with a component of a leptin-independent appetite control pathway. Endocrine changes induced by parenteral administration of EGCG may relate to the observed growth inhibition and regression of human prostate and breast tumors in athymic mice treated with EGCG as well as play a role in the mechanism by which EGCG inhibits cancer initiation and promotion in various animal models of cancer.

Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate.

Liao S, Hiipakka RA.

Ben May Institute, University of Chicago, IL 60637, USA.

Inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase may be effective in the treatment of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone-dependent abnormalities, such as benign prostate hyperplasia, prostate cancer and certain skin diseases. The green tea catechins, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate and (-)epicatechin-3-gallate, but not (-)epicatechin and (-)epigallocatechin, are potent inhibitors of type 1 but not type 2 5 alpha-reductase. (-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.

Soy phytochemicals and tea bioactive components synergistically inhibit androgen-sensitive human prostate tumors in mice.

Zhou JR, Yu L, Zhong Y, Blackburn GL.

Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA. jrzhou@caregroup.harvard.edu

Although high doses of single bioactive agents may have potent anticancer effects, the chemopreventive properties of the Asian diet may result from interactions among several components that potentiate the activities of any single constituent. In Asia, where intake of soy products and tea consumption are very high, aggressive prostate cancer is significantly less prevalent in Asian men. The objective of the present study was to identify possible synergistic effects between soy and tea components on prostate tumor progression in a mouse model of orthotopic androgen-sensitive human prostate cancer. Soy phytochemical concentrate (SPC), black tea and green tea were compared with respect to tumorigenicity rate, primary tumor growth, tumor proliferation index and microvessel density, serum androgen level and metastases to lymph nodes. SPC, black tea and green tea significantly reduced tumorigenicity. SPC and black tea also significantly reduced final tumor weights. Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. The combination of SPC and black tea synergistically inhibited prostate tumorigenicity, final tumor weight and metastases to lymph nodes in vivo. The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo. Inhibition of tumor progression was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation and tumor angiogenesis. This study suggests that further research is warranted to study the role of soy and tea combination as effective nutritional regimens in prostate cancer prevention.

Interesting stuff. I wonder how it compares to saw palmetto. __________________

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After reading a lot on the internet, there seems to be an overwhelming sway towards green tea being a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor in humans. There was only one study that I could find that said that green tea increased DHT in rats. All studies conducted on humans that I was able to find indicated the opposite. Any site I found that said green tea raised DHT levels refered to the same one experiment that was performed.

Additionally, I discovered that Zinc appears to be a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor aswell. Overall, it increases your testosterone, however, in excess, it prevents that T from being converted into DHT. Now I'm not saying that you should completely cut zinc out of your diet. It is very important for cell growth and a number of other things. I'm just saying you should be careful not to consume too much. I'm just going to consume the zinc in my multi vitamin and normal diet and not go beyond that.

Personnaly, I'm thinking my vitamin/supplement stack being:

Centrum multi-vitamin
AAKG (for those who don't know, AAKG stands for Argnine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, the Alpha-Ketoglutarate helps w/ absorbtion, better than L-argnine in my opinion)
Glucosamine + Chondroitin
and some sort of vitamin B but I have to research that more

[pe2damax]

I'm just curious though, in the book the guy is saying:

The safe way to grow the penis is to power the brain's acetylcholine/parasympatheic, dopamine and seritonin nervous, liver, neuro-endocrine, and cardiovascular systems to bring sufficient hormones (DHEA and androstenedione are the best) and liver enzymes into the penile shaft for producing more DHT locally and at the time, detoxify the prostate and hair rooting cells.

I'm not seeing where he says how to power all the brain's systems. He just tells us that we also need to eat things that inhibit DHT production. It doesn't seem like the book clearly says what we are supposed to do to get localized DHT rich blood in the penis, does simply staying hard for 30-60 minutes promote DHT production locally. Because my understanding is that he is saying you need to somehow power the brain as stated above to send DHT production locally and edging for 30-60 minutes is just the way to soak the tissue in the DHT rich blood.

[phallic1]

To "power the brain's systems" is too increase the levels of neurotransmitters such as dopamine, seritonin and acetylcholine. Being sexually aroused with goal of increasing the quality of your erection till it's skin bursting ready to pop is claimed to increase local (penis and accessory organs) 5 alpha-reductase enzyme activity, coverting more test into dht. The increase in the dht levels is claimed to increase the quantity and sensitivity of androgen receptors whithin the penis. Dht is essential for maintainance and growth of the penis.

Limiting ejaculations to no more than once every 8-10 days keeps prolactin levels low. Prolactin and dopamine are antagonistic, in that prolactin lowers sex drive and dopamine increases sex drive.