[remek]

It is pretty much conventional wisdom here that the ligaments are the best way to make gains. Where this idea came from, I don't know. But everyone seems to pass it on as the truth. Even I instruct newbies to start stretching at lower angles.

Modesto recently made a recent comment on ligament stretching. In an essence, he said:

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

Another thing to note is that the amount one can hope to gain by moving the attachment point on the PS from Hi to Lo is actually not that great, since the PS is angled at about 45-degrees. For example, if you move your attachment point back 1" along the PS, the penis only extends out 0.3" further at 9 o'clock.

This is because the attachment point moves back 0.707" further inside the body. Therefore, the 1" of movement along the PS buys you only 1"-0.707" = 0.3-ish inches of additional horizontal extension.

However, one may measure more than this using the BPEL technique, since the ruler can be applied lower on the pubic bone and thus can be pushed in further. This is why I think all BPEL measurements should be made from the most forward point of the pubic bone.

Basically, if you don't know this already, the idea of stretching the ligaments is to lower the exit point and bring the inner penis to "outer penis."
However, the pubic bone is at a weird angle. It isn't flat like one would assume. It is at a 45 degree angle, like the picture attached below.

Therefore, Modesto is suggesting that when you lower your exit point (by lig stretching), you aren't getting all the gains you would think. First, since your exit point is lower you can push the ruler in further. If you don't understand this, look at the picture above and imagine pushing in the ruler at the top of the pubic bone. Now imagine pushing it in at the bottom of the pubic bone. You will have a much bigger fat pad at the bottom then you will at the top. Thus, your gains of ligament stretching will be mostly BPEL, rather than NBPEL.

This all seems find and dandy. In fact, a few men claim they have made small BPEL gains, but not NBPEL gains. This might be ligament gains; who knows.

However, I put a little more thought into something I overlooked for so long. The ligament theory requires the exit point to be lowered. Substantially lower if you make big lig gains. Basically, your whole package should be much lower than it originally was if you made big ligament gains. How often does this happen?!? To be honest, I'm not sure. I haven't noticed my exit point being lowered at all. I think that if ligament stretching caused big gains, then a lot of men would be discussing their lower exit points.

This brings me to my question, (this is especially important for you big gainers), have you noticed a lower exit point since you started PEing? If so, how much?

[Dustpan]

Are you trying to say that the penis is hanging lower now, as it was before when you started. That means that you have stretched the upper ligament more to let the penis hang lower.

[remek]

Dusty,

The idea behind the ligament theory states that when the ligaments are stretched (and gains are made), the penis exits the body at a lower point than it once did. In other words, a lower exit point.

I don't think this happens as much as we believe it does. I don't know about you, but I haven't noticed a lower exit point.

Additionally, if we do make ligament gains, most of them are BPEL (bone pressed erect length gains). IOW, we have a bigger fat pad because the pubic bone is slanted at a 30 degree angle. And when we lower the exit point, we can press the ruler in more.

So basically, what I am trying to say is that the ligaments are the main way to stretch.

My suggestion: Hit it all. Stretch down, up, side to side. The rotating stretch is good for this.

I have discussed this with many other people on other forums and we have come to an agreement, that the ligament potential isn't what we have perceived it to be.

[jwritz]

I don't see any significance given to stretching the CC and CS. Does the view here coincide with the general AMA view that they cannot be stretched, therefore it is a vain attempt if stretching the tunica is part of the goal of Penis Enlargement? It also seems that whether by the lengthening surgery or weight hanging and stretching, if the lengthening process drops the penis to a lower level on the pubic bone - which it does, IMHO, then we need to have the pubic fat pad greatly reduced or removed. Am I thinking straight on this one?

jwritz

[remek]

Originally Posted by jwritz

I don't see any significance given to stretching the CC and CS.

When stretching, it is most likely that you are stretching the entire shaft. Not just the CCs and CS, but the tunica, the veins & arteries, the collagen fibers, and specifically the smooth muscle inside the penis as well.

Originally Posted by jwritz

Does the view here coincide with the general AMA view that they cannot be stretched, therefore it is a vain attempt if stretching the tunica is part of the goal of Penis Enlargement?

As far as I know, the AMA views Natural Penis Enlargement to be dangerous and unlikely significant in producing real gains. Sure, they know the exit point can be lowered if the ligaments are cut, but I don't think they have an opinion about ligament gains and NPE.

The AMA is currently very much out of the loop.

Originally Posted by jwritz

It also seems that whether by the lengthening surgery or weight hanging and stretching, if the lengthening process drops the penis to a lower level on the pubic bone - which it does, IMHO, then we need to have the pubic fat pad greatly reduced or removed. Am I thinking straight on this one?

J, are you refering to dieting or surgery to remove the fatpad?


And btw, welcome to the gym

[jwritz]

Hi, Remik; Thanks for the reply. I have a low view of the AMA's ultraconservative (Translation: "Head-in-the-sand") non-approach to PE, whether surgical or manual. I have recovered the nearly two inches after my prostatectomy for prostate cancer, and I've done it by manual stretching and other PE exercises. I know they work, albeit slowly. As to the method of the fat pad issue, some may have good success with dieting; others who have been morbidly obese and lost weight will still have a large amount of fat pad hanging over the pubic area and need surgery. It is a matter of choice, but if one is overweight, for all issues penile they should shed the pounds; and a modified balanced diet would be the ideal way to do that.

When I stretch my penis, the whole organ gets a work out. I have often wondered if I should try to measure from Bone Pressed to the base of the glans, which would be a better measurment of length growth than mdasuring from the pubic bone to the tip of the glans. My glans has grown significantly over the past few years, and it is longer, too.

Thanks for your gracious welcome to the Gym! It's good to be associated with a cleaner website than some others I have visited. I hope the members keep it from becoming a porn site. I can't share those other sites with my wife; she thinks bad thoughts of them when she sees the trash. She is realistic, but a highly moral person in character and practice. She will not even consider the information shared on those sites as valid. The cooperation and support of the wife in PE is a valued and necessary element to PE.

Good job and good information! Thanks you very much.

- jwritz

[jwritz]

Hey, remek, Please forgive me for mispelling your screen name. Don't know why I didn't catch it before I sent it. Usually I am more careful than that. Guess it was just a quick reply and I didn't take the time with it that it deserved. I notice I also mispelled in the text. Ooooo! ;-) Will try to do better!

- jwritz

[remek]

Originally Posted by jwritz

Hi, Remik; Thanks for the reply. I have a low view of the AMA's ultraconservative (Translation: "Head-in-the-sand") non-approach to PE, whether surgical or manual. I have recovered the nearly two inches after my prostatectomy for prostate cancer, and I've done it by manual stretching and other PE exercises. I know they work, albeit slowly. As to the method of the fat pad issue, some may have good success with dieting; others who have been morbidly obese and lost weight will still have a large amount of fat pad hanging over the pubic area and need surgery. It is a matter of choice, but if one is overweight, for all issues penile they should shed the pounds; and a modified balanced diet would be the ideal way to do that.

Jwritz,

I completely agree. Obesity has a much bigger affect on the penis than just the fat pad. It literally kills erections. And that isn't mentioning the hundreds of other health risks someone is putting themself at by being overweight.

Originally Posted by jwritz

When I stretch my penis, the whole organ gets a work out. I have often wondered if I should try to measure from Bone Pressed to the base of the glans, which would be a better measurment of length growth than mdasuring from the pubic bone to the tip of the glans. My glans has grown significantly over the past few years, and it is longer, too.

I agree, you should try measuring from the pubic bone to the tip of the glans. It is much more accurate, and that is the most important thing when measuring. As you pointed out, your glans have grown.

Originally Posted by j

Thanks for your gracious welcome to the Gym! It's good to be associated with a cleaner website than some others I have visited. I hope the members keep it from becoming a porn site. I can't share those other sites with my wife; she thinks bad thoughts of them when she sees the trash. She is realistic, but a highly moral person in character and practice. She will not even consider the information shared on those sites as valid. The cooperation and support of the wife in PE is a valued and necessary element to PE.

Good job and good information! Thanks you very much.

J, You are very welcome -- and thank you too. I plan on keeping this place very clean. PE is not porn, it is a hobby and a type of exercise. Some sites choose to use porn as a means of discussion, but I'd rather stay away from that. I must admit though, when I see a nice avatar, I like to point it out .

- remek

[Gakeku]

Sick.

[remek]

Sick?