[ReetB]

I've been meaning to post this for a while after much thought and musing on my train journey to work every morning.

I appreciate that PE is still in it's infancy, but I think we're really getting closer as a community to cracking why and how PE works. I firmly believe that understanding the how's and why's is of great importance to focusing upon and maximising our gains.

Over my time reading many posts on many forums, two common themes kept coming up:

1. There are "hard gainers" and "quick gainers" - E.G. those who take a long time to grow and those who grow quickly.
2. There are some people who believe in working out at a high numbers of reps, for long periods of time, 6-7 days a week, whereas others go for the "less is more" approach.

But this got me thinking. Is there such a thing as a hard or fast gainer? It is that the person who is gaining quickly is doing something that is more efficient? If you go to a gym and get a good workout routine, you will develop at a steady but progressive rate. If you then took 10 people and gave them a routine that suited their body (taking into consideration starting size, previous workout history etc), I would hedge a bet that they would all increase proportionally at similar rates.

So this got me thinking, is a hard gainer just a myth? I'll stick my neck out and say "yes", purely because I think a lot of routines blanket workouts which if you applied to the gym environment, would also probably yield similar results. Put it this way, if you took the same 10 people again and got them to all push out the same weight on a bench press, some would gain quickly, some would not gain very much (because their body was more conditioned and found it easier) and some would injure themselves!

I thought further and I believe things like "newbie gains" occur in the same way you get noticeable and quick results if you start working out at a gym for the first time. I know that when I've worked out, the first few months I see a great change in my body. My muscles are firmer, I feel stronger, more toned and tire less easily. Overall my body feels great. I believe it's the same response when we start PE. Our body is not used to it and has to adapt.

All of what I've written so far may be totally discounted, but in theory, I believe it holds up pretty well. However there are still questions that I can't answer and would welcome any thoughts to these.

We're all told that "Pills, Pumps and Creams Don't Work!". Whereas I agree with this statement, there is still some confusion there. Creams I'll discount as I don't know enough about them, but the others:

- Pills: I believe the right supplements will support the body in it's regeneration, much like a body builder uses protein to help repair his muscles. However protein along does not build muscle, much like pills along won't build a bigger dick.

- Pumps: This is the biggest area of confusion for me. As we know, when we PE we are aiming to expand our tissues, stretching our tunica, fascia, and ligaments which allows for the spongy tissues to expand further. OK that makes sense. So why don't pumps work in conjunction with PE? From what I can understand, the suck the penis from the inside outwards to stretch the internals of the penis and push them above it's normal limits. Surely this is a good thing? Is there a reason why a pump would not work in conjunction with PE?

Other questions I have include:

- Erection level for jelqing: Why do we recommend jelqing at lower erection levels for length and higher for girth. Surely if you want to increase everything, you need to be jelqing at much higher erection levels? Taking the balloon example that is sometimes used. If you had a highly pumped up balloon, you would need less pressure to squeeze it and expand it above it's maximum level. Isn't this our goal? Do we not want to be expanding above and beyond our maximum levels? Aren't we trying to stretch and expand our penis beyond it's standard levels?

- Intensity: I really do believe intensity is the golden rule in PE. When I use good progressive intensity, my penis always has a nice flush red head and shaft at the end of my PE sessions. I know the blood is being moved around but am I just moving it or am I expanding my dick? Again, aren't we looking to stretch out our dicks beyond what it can do?

- All day stretching: A number of forums promote the use of All-Day-Stretching (ADS). The idea being that you keep your unit stretched or in an extended state for long periods throughout the day in order to encourage the tissues to repair in this extended state. Again, in theory it makes sense, but in practice, do we agree that this works?

Sorry for the length of my post and apologies for some of the digressions, but I'm trying to make sense of a lot of questions. In conclusion though, my gut feelings are as follows:

1. That using a pump as a supplement will aid growth as it stretches the internals of the penis. This MUST be used in conjunction with manual PE though.

2. That using ADS will aid in encouraging the penis to repair in an extended / stretched state.

3. That using good intensity will yield the most effective results.

I'd welcome any comments and thoughts.....and please tell me if I'm talking dribble

Cheers,

RB.

[Pegasus]

Quote from Reet
But this got me thinking. Is there such a thing as a hard or fast gainer? It is that the person who is gaining quickly is doing something that is more efficient? If you go to a gym and get a good workout routine, you will develop at a steady but progressive rate. If you then took 10 people and gave them a routine that suited their body (taking into consideration starting size, previous workout history etc), I would hedge a bet that they would all increase proportionally at similar rates. Unquote

I thought you were being serious till I read this.
I would have to say, this is one of the most untrue statements I have ever read.
Drug free steady and progressive improvement, hah I don't think I have ever seen it past the first year.
People vary just as much in their gym results as their PE

Pillls.
Look in the newbie section for recomended supplements.
Pumps
Many per's do use pumps in conjunction with pe and they post to this forum

High erection% jelq
Are often used by advanced PEr's but are dangerous for beginers

Intensity
OK so what is "good intensity"

ADS
Don't think this is fully agreed, though some seem to like them

[ReetB]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Quote from Reet
But this got me thinking. Is there such a thing as a hard or fast gainer? It is that the person who is gaining quickly is doing something that is more efficient? If you go to a gym and get a good workout routine, you will develop at a steady but progressive rate. If you then took 10 people and gave them a routine that suited their body (taking into consideration starting size, previous workout history etc), I would hedge a bet that they would all increase proportionally at similar rates. Unquote

I thought you were being serious till I read this.
I would have to say, this is one of the most untrue statements I have ever read.
Drug free steady and progressive improvement, hah I don't think I have ever seen it past the first year.
People vary just as much in their gym results as their PE

Pegasus, In my gym analogy, I did not say everyone will increase at the same rate, it's just that results are more easy to measure. Put it this way, if you go to the gym and work out, after 6 months of running each day, you will tone up and lose weight. I don't know anyone that has gone to the gym and has got fatter and more unfit. My point was that there are proven exercises that we know work for the large majority (99.9%) whereas in PE, there are no 100% solid reps and exercises that will work for the same 99.9% of people. For example, if everyone new to the gym did bicep curls for a month, after the first few days their arms would ache, then by the end of the month, generally speaking, their muscles would be firmer and stronger.

In the PE environment, it's more difficult to measure exercises as there are a number of additional factors. How much force (intensity) is someone using? This doesn't happen in the gym world as the weight of the barbell / weights determine this. In PE, your grip determines it. What one person deems as too hard, someone else will think is too light. This is one of the reasons why I think we get differing results.

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Pillls.
Look in the newbie section for recomended supplements.

What??! I'm not looking for advise on pills. I'm actually a PE veteran! The point I was making was that pills (or supplements as we call them) are good to support PE and general health. I think you need to re-read what I've written.

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Pumps
Many per's do use pumps in conjunction with pe and they post to this forum

Well yes, that's an obvious statement. I was merely trying to establish if there was any correlation between what pumping achieves along with what jelqing achieves. We are trying to expand our penises beyond their natural limit, so one would assume using something like a pump would encourage the tissues to stretch further. Having said this, there appears to be a school of thought that believes no permanent gains come as a result of pumping. What I'm trying to understand is why this might be. In essence, a jelq and a pump are similar in what they are trying to achieve - i.e. expansion of the penis internals, so why would one not work over the other.

Originally Posted by Pegasus

High erection% jelq
Are often used by advanced PEr's but are dangerous for beginers

Again, yes, an obvious statement. I wasn't referring to the danger of high erection level jelqs, but again the theory behind why they might be more effective. I think you've missed the point I was trying to make here.

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Intensity
OK so what is "good intensity"

That's the golden question isn't it! I would say that good intensity is progressive pressure that doesn't allow the penis to adapt. Taking the gym analogy again, it's like starting off with a 10kg weight, then after a week, moving up to the 15kg, then the 20kg, and onwards. You increase the weight because your muscles are getting stronger and you need the higher weights to break down the muscle fibres in order for them to repair and grow. In theory, you should do the same when you PE but as you're not using weights, the force at which you jelq (your intensity) should increase.

Originally Posted by Pegasus

ADS
Don't think this is fully agreed, though some seem to like them

Exactly, which is why I asked the question. There have been PE sites around since 1999 and possibly beforehand. With almost 10 years worth of experience now, I wonder if there are people out there (or maybe on this board) who have a thought on ADS (and any of the above for that matter).

[JonPop]

Excellent post ReetB. I have several thoughts myself, but I am going to refrain from posting until this thread develops a little more.

[ReetB]

Thanks Jon

I'm just trying to think about things logically and I have to admit that the penis pump vs jelqing baffles me. I can't understand how most state that pumps do not give permanent gains whereas jelqing does. To my mind both do the same - they stretch the internals of the penis.

[Pegasus]

Quote
We're all told that "Pills, Pumps and Creams Don't Work!". Whereas I agree with this statement, there is still some confusion there. Creams I'll discount as I don't know enough about them, but the others:

- Pumps: This is the biggest area of confusion for me. As we know, when we PE we are aiming to expand our tissues, stretching our tunica, fascia, and ligaments which allows for the spongy tissues to expand further. OK that makes sense. So why don't pumps work in conjunction with PE?
Unquote

If that is what you are trying to say, then your post is unclear. At one point you say they pills and pumps work or should work yet here you say they don't.

Your statement re high% jelq does seem to clearly support them, but without any mention of risk, to newbie's who may be reading this thread.

Your gym analogy I see where you are going with now, but it was likewise unclear.

I support the concept you are trying to develop. I hope your clarification of your post will turn out to be a positive.

[rbi99]

Never used a pump, heck, haven't ever seen a pump. However, maybe the difference between a pump and jelqing, is that the pump does it thing, then it is done. With jelqing, you stroke, then stroke again and again. Perhaps it is the repetitive nature of jelqing that separates it from the use of a pump. Fill the cells with extra blood, deplete the blood, than start again. The pump just fills them once and leaves it at that - I think.

Jelqing and erection strength: "Surely if you want to increase everything, you need to be jelqing at much higher erection levels?" What are you basing this on? If I jelq a less than full balloon, the air I am pushing up its length will expand the balloon as I move up it. Also, I disagree with you regarding less effort to expand a fully expanded balloon. I think just the opposite will happen. Since you are trying to displace more air in a tighter area, that would require more effort than squeezing a less than full balloon. You would squeeze the less than full balloon more perhaps, but that doesn't mean it would be more difficult or require more effort. I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Precisely because you expand your unit more when more fully erect is the reason while higher erection levels aide in girth more so than at lower erection levels. However, to discount lower erection level jelqing does not follow from your statement.