[remek]

There's really no way to tell!

If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?

[stillwantmore]

Originally Posted by remek

There's really no way to tell!

If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?

No, I gained evenly in all length measurements.

[remek]

Originally Posted by stillwantmore

No, I gained evenly in all length measurements.

Interesting. I'd have to presume that most of your gains didn't come from ligament gains then.

[stillwantmore]

Originally Posted by remek

Interesting. I'd have to presume that most of your gains didn't come from ligament gains then.

Hard to say. Again, like with the "LOT" theory...I just put my head down and did the hanging. I was mostly sore at two points. In the ligs...in the base area, and at the attachment points where the hanger was on my penis.

[Artman]

Originally Posted by remek

Here are my current thoughts on the subject of smooth muscle:

• For the penis to enlarge, the smooth muscle (cells and sinusoid spaces) must enlarge too. This is how I think penis enlargement takes place. I don't have the time to go into complete detail right now, and I won't for the next 1-3 months (another reason I gave my quick opinion in this thread), but I do plan on doing more research and writing a few "Internet" articles on the subject.

• Because the penis is compromised of 50 percent smooth muscle, and smooth muscle has a lot of the basic properties of skeletal muscle (the biceps, triceps, and all the other commonly known muscles), we can presume that it might react to stress the same way normal muscle does. Which is a no brainer for us all! What are we doing here? Exercising! Moreover, nearly every single guideline we have is based off body-building/exercising/weightlifting concepts in one way or another! Think about it -- Bib, presumably one of the biggest gainers (if we accept his claims as facts), used a weightlifting concept known as "progressive overload." Peter Dick, another big gainer uses a common weightlifting program known as "muscle confusion" (in which he keeps the muscles guessing). And now, more recently (thanks to guys like you [xeno], Shiver, MX, Modesto, Wadzilla, and many more) we are now realizing cyclic training using deconditioning breaks helps us keep the penis in a responsive state. And cycylic training is a very popular weightlifting principle (if not the biggest).

• Albeit, this doesn't particularly mean we can attribute the growth to smooth muscle growth -- but regardless, if the penis grows, the smooth muscle must grow too. The article I quoted above stated: less smooth muscle = higher chance of ED. Obviously this isn't the case for us PEers. Most of us report harder erections.

• Also, It is well documented that smooth muscle can grow due to stress. I have a whole book on the subject, in fact. It is called [u]
  Hypertrophic Response in Smooth Muscle[u], by Charles L. Seidel and Normal W. Weisbrodt. It appears this book has numerous scholarly articles on the growth of smooth muscle. Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...Fencoding=UTF8

• I also think this can explain why PE gains are permanent (for the most part), opposed to traditional muscular growth gains. Think about it like this: the smooth muscle in the penis is exercised when we jelq, stretch, and incorporate other exercises. These exercises take the penis (and the smooth muscle) beyond it's normal threshold. But what is the normal threshold? An erection. Masturbation, sex, anything that involves an erection is exercise too! It's typically just not enough to cause growth. Therefore, after the gains are cemented, and we retire all we need to do to keep the gains is have frequent erections -- in which the erections are enough exercise to keep the gains. It is also well documented that as men get older, and they use their penis less, the smaller it becomes. Note: I don't have a reference for this off-hand.

All that being said, I hope it's enough reference for you, at least for now You'll have to wait a few months until I get some more time to completely divulge into the research again -- something I do love. I'm not sure if I'm on the right path with my smooth muscle theory, but there is one thing for certain: Guys like you, sparkyx, Shiver, Modesto, me, and countless other scientific minded PEers will figure it all out, sooner or later.

Based on the above smooth muscle theory I started reading whatever I could fine on smooth muscle in general. I believe that the various exercises where all doing here is causing the smooth muscle to contract and expand. Smooth muscle reacts normally by involuntary electrical signals from our nervous system. Meaning muscle contractions without our full control much different from muscle contractions produced when doing bicep curls.

This got me thinking what if were to use a TENS device "Transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation" the same devices physical therapy people use to simulate muscle contractions. I have found tests were this process has been done on humans for ED issues. I believe this would be a more presice way to know how much of a muscle workout we are applying to penises.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Iguana]

Artman,

First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!

Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)

It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.


Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!


-Iguana

[Artman]

Originally Posted by Iguana

Artman,

First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!

Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)

It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.


Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!


-Iguana

Thanks for the welcome! Here is a link that I have read. That's pointing me in this direction.

SpringerLink - Journal Article
C. G. Stief1 , E. Weller2, T. Noack3, M. Djamilian1, M. Meschi1, M. Truss1 and U. Jonas1
(1) Department of Urology, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(2) Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(3) Department of Physiology, University of Marburg, Marburg, Germany

Summary Transcutaneous application of low-frequency electric current in the treatment of partially or temporarily denervated striated muscles is widely used to prevent or treat muscular atrophy. Due to the high regenerative capacity of smooth-muscle cells, this approach should be beneficial in the treatment of diseases with smooth-muscle degeneration due to partial denervation. Our study was done to evaluate the possible beneficial effect of transcutaneously applied low-frequency electric current on the corpus cavernosum penis in the treatment of erectile dysfunction. After a comprehensive workup, 21 patients with chronic erectile dysfunction (20/21 vasoactive nonresponders) received daily (3–5×20 min) transcutaneous functional electromyostimulation of the corpus cavernosum smooth muscles [FEMCC; zero-line symmetric impulses of trapezoid shape, 2-channel device with alternating stimulations; frequency (f), 10–20 Hz for channel I and 20–35 Hz for channel II; impulse duration (t i ), 100–150 s; approx. 12 mA; rise time, 0.5 s; stimulation time, 5 s/channel; pause between stimulations, 0.5 s. In all, 4/21 patients (19%) regained full spontaneous erections and another 3/21 (14%) responded to vasoactive drugs after FEMCC. Overall, 14/21 were FEMCC failures, including 2 who subjectively improved. In a similar group of patients who were evaluated during the same period but received no therapy, no spontaneous improvement in erectile functïon was observed. Our preliminary findings suggest that FEMCC is feasible and results in an improvement in erectile capacity in a significant number (33%) of patients. Further studies will be carried out to corroborate our results, to improve the stimulation parameters, and to evaluate the selection criteria for patients suitable for FEMCC.