[remek]

Dicko, please check your PMs.

[Dicko]

I just checked the PM's

Originally Posted by remek

With my current knowledge, I've come to the conclusion that it's the smooth muscle that grows, and thus pushes the tunica out further.

Is that a part of the smooth muscle theory or should it be interpreted as your own personal conclusion? Because it would be cool to have a name on the "smooth muscle stretches the tunica" concept.

Also what are your thoughts about the limits of gains? It's hard to answer since we arent sure how PE works but it's a very fundamental question in PE, in my opinion.

[remek]

Originally Posted by Dicko

I just checked the PM's


Is that a part of the smooth muscle theory or should it be interpreted as your own personal conclusion? Because it would be cool to have a name on the "smooth muscle stretches the tunica" concept.

Both, I suppose. Ever since I started reading about the smooth muscle, it made more sense that the smooth muscle stretches the tunica (not vice versa).

Originally Posted by Dicko

Also what are your thoughts about the limits of gains? It's hard to answer since we arent sure how PE works but it's a very fundamental question in PE, in my opinion.

I steered away from the http://www.pegym.com/forums/general-...nss-limit.html limit thread, hoping I escaped. It looks like I didn't, eh? I'll post my reply in that thread, since it's more appropriate.

[Dicko]

Break gains is mysterious and poses some important questions.

Does gains happen instantly during the applied stress, like when you increase the length of a rubberband by stretching it (plastic deformation), and/or do gains happen during breaks after the applied stresses (actual growth)? The latter implies that we trigger some kind of growth mechanism that actually results in an increase of mass (similar to how the penis grows naturally?), how else could you get gains during a break, if that is what's happening?

Many of my gains have been break gains. Lets say you train for a month, measure at the end of that month (post-training measurement) and there's no increase. Then you take a break for a month and measure again after the break is over (post-break measurement) and find that you have gained. That's a break gain.

Now, the problem is that I used BPEL and you could argue that the post-training measurements was influenced by a lowered erection quality and that the gains was there already and only after a break did I get back my erection quality and noticed the gains. That would make it look as if you have gained during the break when you really haven't. Of course a BPFSL would rule out erection quality from the equation and so you would have a reliable measurement to use as a reference.

So, if we could prove that the BPFSL increases during a break I think it would tell us something very important about PE gains, and it's simple to test. Do you know of any BPFSL increases during breaks? Of course it's important that the measurement is very reliable.

I hope you understand my point.

[remek]

Originally Posted by Dicko

Break gains is mysterious and poses some important questions.

Does gains happen instantly during the applied stress, like when you increase the length of a rubberband by stretching it (plastic deformation), and/or do gains happen during breaks after the applied stresses (actual growth)? The latter implies that we trigger some kind of growth mechanism that actually results in an increase of mass (similar to how the penis grows naturally?), how else could you get gains during a break, if that is what's happening?

Dicko, I believe that for the most part, our penis grows from a combination of both. If all the tissues in the penis are to grow (which only makes sense), then we can assume that some of those tissues might be stretched right away (such as tunica, perhaps) while others will grow after rest (such as the smooth muscle, perhaps).

Originally Posted by Dicko

Many of my gains have been break gains. Lets say you train for a month, measure at the end of that month (post-training measurement) and there's no increase. Then you take a break for a month and measure again after the break is over (post-break measurement) and find that you have gained. That's a break gain.

Yea, I would say that most men experience break gains to some degree. Some men only gain on break.

Originally Posted by Dicko

Now, the problem is that I used BPEL and you could argue that the post-training measurements was influenced by a lowered erection quality and that the gains was there already and only after a break did I get back my erection quality and noticed the gains. That would make it look as if you have gained during the break when you really haven't. Of course a BPFSL would rule out erection quality from the equation and so you would have a reliable measurement to use as a reference.

So, if we could prove that the BPFSL increases during a break I think it would tell us something very important about PE gains, and it's simple to test. Do you know of any BPFSL increases during breaks? Of course it's important that the measurement is very reliable.

I hope you understand my point.

Dicko, you make an excellent point. That's a great observation, and perhaps the "break gains" aren't really break gains at all - perhaps it's just a matter of erection quality. I don't know of any particular cases of anyone reporting BPFSL increases during breaks - or even looking into it for that matter.

Either way, I think gains come from a combination of both break gains and PD gains - depending on the tissues that are being enlarged/stretched.

[Iguana]

Very interesting guys! I experienced "break gains" during my last decon break. I gained 1/4" length in the first two weeks and then leveled out for two months. (Unfortunately, I lost 1/4" girth.) But this time (I am now in my second month decon) I have lost 1/4" length AND 1/4" girth. My BPFSL has dropped about 1/4" to 3/8" also. The only difference is, with my last decon break I traction wrapped for the entire time. It may have kept me from loosing length? Unfortunately, I didn't gain any faster upon returning so I reasoned the wrapping may have hindered my deconditioning. This time I have not wrapped but hopfully gains will speed up upon return.

[Dicko]

It's a simple concept. If we assume PD gains shows up instantly and growth gains takes time to show up we can use this knowledge along with an accurate measurement (BPFSL) as an reference to determine if PD and/or growth occurs. So if one gets a permanent BPFSL increase in such a short time that growth couldnt explain it, it would suggest PD is happening just like an increase during a break would suggest that growth is happening.

With BPFSL it's been my experience that my gains seems to be able to manifest themselves very fast at the very least.

[Iguana]

Originally Posted by Dicko

...So if one gets a permanent BPFSL increase in such a short time that growth couldnt explain it, it would suggest PD is happening just like an increase during a break would suggest that growth is happening.

Or.. we could simply be pushing the elasticity of the tunica.

I have to agree that break gains may simply be an improvement in EQ.

[remek]

Iguana, what's your take on the smooth muscle concept?

[Iguana]

Well... my quick answer is that I think the smooth muscle theory is the most promising of all PE explanations so far and the evidence definitely supports it.

It is documented that Angiotensin, which increases blood pressure, will elicit a growth response in smooth muscle cells. I think that is what happens with jelqing and clamping. It seems to be the same process (angiogenesis) observed in patients with blocked arteries; increased blood pressure puts stress loads on the vascular cavities and natural arterial bypasses are formed as a result (although they are not usually able to fully compensate for the blockage.)

Great thread by the way!