Premature ejaculation coaches corner.

[imac]

On the strength/flexibility of reverse kegels (imac vs james etc...):
As I said several times before, there are reverse kegels done as the exercise and reverse kegels ment for relaxation of the pelvic floor usually done during a session, those in exercises are ment to improve SOMETHING i don't care if it is flexibility or strength or both it is a moot point, the point is that it IMPROVES. However it is a mistake to both over isolate and over train over commit to forcing it out. In conclusion both of you are right and wrong at the same time.

I don't understand what you mean when you say it's a mistake to over isolate. Surely you can either isolate something or you can't or don't. Can you explain what you mean by over isolate?

I don't agree that it's a moot point to discuss something just because there is disagreement, I think that's all the more reason to discuss something. Understanding is the key to learning.
To me that would be like saying it doesn't matter how a plane fly's it could be lift and thrust or it could be magic but it's a moot point as long as it flys.
(Yes I know that's a silly example, I mean come on who believes in magic know a days.)

As I said in a previous post that when James and Pegasus talk about the strength of a reverse kegel and I talk about the force you apply to a reverse kegel that I think we're actually talking about the same thing just using different language to convey ourselves.

This is my opinion on the subject.
Kegels strengthen and tone your pelvic floor muscles
Reverse kegels (the strength or force in which you can do them set aside) make your pelvic floor muscles more flexible
Both combined create a strong and flexible pelvic floor.

[Minuteman]

I don't understand what you mean when you say it's a mistake to over isolate. Surely you can either isolate something or you can't or don't. Can you explain what you mean by over isolate?

When I say over isolate I mean to commit too much effort to isolation (especially in the beginning) isolation comes naturally with time that doesn't mean that you should not do anything about it but don't go to far in that direction. Not to mention that isolation is not a yes/no state for example you can isolate the movement of your entire pelvic floor, that is isolation to, then you can isolate your reverse kegel only that is a more precise isolation that can become a hindering problem for beginners sicne most of them can't achieve them and then simply give up reverse kegels because "they where not isolating enough", instead if they just continued to do the movement in time they would succedm that is what i ment by overisolation.

I think we're actually talking about the same thing just using different language to convey ourselves.

Ergo moot point, we all prosper if we don't over do it (over isolate and over train...).

Not even to say that you wont be able to change his mind as much as he can't change your mind, so it is not an argument. it is "agree to disagree"-ment because both of you have some point and both of you, as I said, have what is from my perspective error in thinking about some things. The good and the important thing here in this topic is that the person who uses reverse kegels knows how to use them and don't go to far in either direction, later on he will be able to decide for himself what reverse kegels mean for him.

[imac]

When I say over isolate I mean to commit too much effort to isolation (especially in the beginning) isolation comes naturally with time that doesn't mean that you should not do anything about it but don't go to far in that direction. Not to mention that isolation is not a yes/no state for example you can isolate the movement of your entire pelvic floor, that is isolation to, then you can isolate your reverse kegel only that is a more precise isolation that can become a hindering problem for beginners sicne most of them can't achieve them and then simply give up reverse kegels because "they where not isolating enough", instead if they just continued to do the movement in time they would succedm that is what i ment by overisolation.



Ergo moot point, we all prosper if we don't over do it (over isolate and over train...).

Not even to say that you wont be able to change his mind as much as he can't change your mind, so it is not an argument. it is "agree to disagree"-ment because both of you have some point and both of you, as I said, have what is from my perspective error in thinking about some things. The good and the important thing here in this topic is that the person who uses reverse kegels knows how to use them and don't go to far in either direction, later on he will be able to decide for himself what reverse kegels mean for him.

I see what your saying now, Thanks clearing that up.

[Novajelqer]

These discussions are great. They are teaching and learning moments.

[JamesMonroe]

When iMac says that a a good reverse kegel ability is caused by good regular kegel ability could be right, but I think he also could be wrong beacuse him and I both agree that "something" can be strengthened that makes the push stronger and work better. That thing just might be the pelvic diaphragm that we both agree is helping to push the reverse kegel out. I think that maybe THAT is what is being strenghened. And maybe BECAUSE I did train it strongly for many months, that is why I am very good at them. Idk... or maybe there are other muscles around that area that help too. Maybe the lower an muscles help the diaphragm which helps the reverse kegel. You gotta remember.... I COMPLETETLY STOPPED regular kegels the whole time I was learning and training my reverse kegels really hard.

[JamesMonroe]

*the lower ab muscles

[JamesMonroe]

Also... as far as isolation... Like I mentioned before... i wasn't able to isolate very well until way later when my reverse kegel strength/diaphragm/lower ab muscles or whatever, got better.

[cris_jos]

Or may be there are two ways to do it.
Stretching--which is as Imac says a not so forceful activity. It is supposed to relax the whole area. It does not require any assistance from other muscles, but any muscle is capable of stretching and relaxing on it own. So the maximum strength in this case can only bring the soothing/relaxing sensation.

Forcing-- which is how James does it. It requires assistance from other muscles (abs, diaphragm etc). It stretches/forces out the muscle to its "full potential".

I'd say the former requires a lot more practice as it involves isolation. But both should do the job and as Minuteman said after a while everybody has their own definition of Reverse Kegels. Everything is fine as long as they do the job and have no side effects.

[Drummer19]

So you agree with me then? What I'm getting from you is that it's all psychological? If you say that, then it has to do more about being comfortable with a girl you can constantly practice with where you have low anxiety like u with the one night stand girl? What I'm trying to get at is that what made me go from 1 min to an avg of 45 minutes was constant progressive sex with a caring/aware partner, not really the exercises and techniques. I proved this because even after being able to edge for 1 hour solo, as soon as I had sex it was a few minutes again. It took 6 months of constant progressive crazy positions sex (without any edging and reverse kegel exercises) to last this long without spasms and quick PONRs. Simply put: I slowly go used to a woman in bed.
The question is.... was it physical as in desensitation because of the long time getting used to the crazy sex positions? Was it mental as in getting less and less aroused over time? Was it like if I was continuing to edge, but with a real woman? Or was it the reverse kegeling at PONRs dusting constant sex that did me good?
Get my drift? It could have been all these things. All I know is that if you do all the PEGYM secrets AND have constant sex with a caring, aware, helpful and patient partner.... the sky is the limit.

After balancing your pelvic floor it is ALL psychological!

Over-arousal and anxiety are extremely related. Control one and you can control the other. The PEGYM tools allow you to identify what your anxiety feels like in order to begin to disarm it. Like I said earlier, once you can last 5min in bed and you have a balanced PF the only way you are gonna increase stamina in bed is by practicing the real thing. It is the fact that in 5min of sex, you are indeed practicing...even if it is only 5 min.

I believe the major part of your success is the progressive sex with a woman. I experienced this too, the more sex you have, the more confident and less anxious you get, but guess what? Unless you don't identify that you are anxious it is possible that you never recover from it, because you don't even know it's there.

Removing porn from your life during that time allowed you to keep progressing with stamina. With porn I am confident that you would have stayed at a standstill, not getting better or worse. But now that you are confident, you don't' have porn acting as a crutch, and because you have no mental attachment to porn, you are able to watch it without it effecting your stamina. However, watching it overtime will more than likely induce ED...

I agree with JM 100% and have for a while now. PEGYM tools are only there to bring you to 5-10min minimum of constant sex, so that from there you naturally build up a tolerance to sex. It is as simple as that. We have definitely found the answers.

[spanky]

After balancing your pelvic floor it is ALL psychological!

...

I believe the major part of your success is the progressive sex with a woman. I experienced this too, the more sex you have, the more confident and less anxious you get, but guess what? Unless you don't identify that you are anxious it is possible that you never recover from it, because you don't even know it's there.

I would add here for clarity that that anxiety is not just performance or surface sexual anxiety, and that underlying issues, stress, trust, depression and other unrelated concerns that as you say are not always easy to identify can be just as destructive.

You have to remember that you are a sexual being. This is what your body has evolved to do, so submit to it and become it. It's what you are.