[jayhawk11]

Originally Posted by Iguana

Jay,

Take a look at this thread. It explains things in detail... http://www.pegym.com/forums/pe-theor...emical-pe.html

Thanks Igauna. I'll take a look at it.

[Hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by Iguana

Well, just checked my measurments this morning and I have already gained back my losses (in one week.)

That is what I find so amazing, I quickly gain back any losses as well. It is beneficial for everyone to take time off so that your unit can decondition it's self for future gains. More and more exercises doesn't seem like a logical approach to me if someones gains all the sudden stop. This is like a big PE stop sign that should be taken seriously. Being dedicated also means that you are willing to not do anything when the time comes, breaks are a very important part of PE.

Sorry for hoggin your thread I hope some of the guys that are having second thoughts about taking breaks will read this and take it to heart. Good Luck.

[Iguana]

Originally Posted by Hairtrigger

That is what I find so amazing, I quickly gain back any losses as well. It is beneficial for everyone to take time off so that your unit can decondition it's self for future gains. More and more exercises doesn't seem like a logical approach to me if someones gains all the sudden stop. This is like a big PE stop sign that should be taken seriously. Being dedicated also means that you are willing to not do anything when the time comes, breaks are a very important part of PE.

Sorry for hoggin your thread I hope some of the guys that are having second thoughts about taking breaks will read this and take it to heart. Good Luck.

I totally agree. I think it's pretty rare to loose during a break and not gain it back. Usually (at least for me) this happens pretty quickly too.

[ozzy83]

Hey,

I just joined this forum and this is my first post. I am not a PE newbie by any means and have had very little luck in traditional (jelqing, stretching) PE so I resorted to Chemical PE back in May 2007. I didn't gain much but I learned a lot about how this chemical PE works from Dr. Adams himself and I feel obliged to share this with the forum and this post is kinda long so please bear with me. I happen to live in Toronto so I followed Dr. Adams protocol. After about 5 months of repeated injecting and stretching, all i gained was .3 inches in FSL and about .1 in EL. I don't know what the protocol includes now, but back then it was just PGE-1 and the strength was adjusted to produce a 2 hour erection at about 80%. I was never optimistic about Chemical PE even when I first joined because the first thing Dr. Adams told me when I visited his clinically initially was that I had a very thick septum. He told me that the septum was THE limiting factor when it comes to length! He palpated the shaft and the septum and gave me a visual idea of how thick my septum was by using his middle finger and thumb. Right there I knew there wasn't much to gain. Furthermore, the reason my septum was probably thick to begin with was that I was actively involved in PE since 2004. So I guess all that stretching and jelqing made the tissues of my penis considerably thicker and tougher and perhaps less responsive to Chemical PE.

I did however get his views on how he believed growth occured. First, as Iguana pointed out PGE-1 loosens the collagen fibers. This on its on won't do anything for making your larger. You have to STRETCH. Dr. Adams indicated that most of the stretching should be done at upward angles to target the tunica/septum. So it was a two step process. First you make the tissues loose and pliable, and then you capitalize by stretching. Secondly, he also said that the erections should not last more than 2 hours at about 70%-90%. He said 2 hours was enough to soak the penile tissues with PGE1 and anymore time than this was actually counter-productive.


Intuitively it seems that the longer the erection lasts the more the benefit but this is counter-productive. This was the doctors explanation: the harder or firmer the chemical induced erection is, the less time you have to remain erect. I dont' remember the exact numerical breakdown he gave me but this was a guideline to follow. You inject, you slowly get erect and you stay erect for a period of time which is determined by the strength of the medication. Once a certain amount of time has passed and IF you start experiencing pain in the shaft then you are starting to get into the trouble zone. Pain is an indication that blood oxygen levels have dropped too low and at this point TGF-b1 starts to get released. TGF-b1 is responsible for excess collagen production and is the precursor in the formation of fibrosis and scar tissue. Definetely not good for maintaining penile elasticity. The 4 hr guildeine for when an erection can be defined as priapism is based on studies done that measure blood oxygen levels and usually they start to drop between the 4-6 hr mark. IF however you are very very hard (100%), then 2.5 hours could be be enough to cause the onset of these excess collagen production. Use the pain indicator to judge your situation accordingly.

I don't believe the protocol has changed much since 2007, but I believe Dr. Adams has added topical verapamil in the program. I don't know the effectiveness of topical verapamil but the belief is that it keeps the tissues pliable by reducing excess collagen. This is actually intended to be used for treating peyronies disease (Scar tissue formation causing a bend in the penis).

IF you are still reading this, then there is something else to think about. What Iguana has done was added IGF-1 LR3 to the mix. I don't know much about this but I believe if the theory is correct, then growth would occur on its own without the need to stretch or jelq since IGF-1 LR3 binds to the cells and causes them to multiply and get larger or whatever. This of course can possibly lead to more linear growth. Growth by traditional PE methods follows a law of diminishing returns. Afer a while your tissues have gotten much more thicker and harder to stretch also possible due to a higher collagen: elastin ratio but with IGF-1 LR3 since you are obtaining growth by a different mechanism, you may see even, consistent growth.

I would love to see the result of this "experiment" with IGF-1 LR3. I also do believe Dr. Adams telling me that some of his American clients have experienced with other stuff i.e HGH and have seen good gains. My hats off to Iguana for his dedication, patience and willingness to arrive at the truth about chemical PE. I ran out of all my options and this is probably the only hope I have got left in my quest for a larger dick. Any questions would be appreciated. As for Mr. Igauana, please keep us updated and good luck to you and all others. OZZY.

[shane_syndrome]

Hey , its been a while since you posted.
Did u notice anymore gains with it or any negative sides?

[ozzy83]

No, I am not on the chemical program and haven't been doing any PE for a couple years now. So no gains to report of.

[Iguana]

Ozzy,

Great information! Thanks for sharing! I think some of your observations are spot on. Especially about manual PE diminishing the effects of the chemicals. I think that is probably why those in the study had much better results that the vets that have tried. I know one guy who had very good results. He likewise was a newbie.

Interesting on the targeted erection time. My thinking was the longer the better but that seems to be incorrect based on the good docs information. My injection last night was quite painful, very hard as you described, and lasted for about 3 1/2 hours. I will try cutting back my doses to get in that range.

The part about TGF- follows pretty much everything I have read. TGF- acts primarily as a VSMC growth inhibitor, (it can stimulate proliferation at low concentrations), so too much will be counter productive

The timing thing also raises a good point. I have always believed that the timing of the stretching was important. The guy I mentioned earlier (who made such good progress) stretched before injecting. My thoughts were that if the PGE-1 broke down collagen it would be more productive to stretch after-wards. I have always stretched before and my results have been less than noteworthy. I think I will try reversing the order to see if it makes any difference.

It's interesting he could determine the thickness of your septum by feeling. That might be advantageous for all of us to learn to self-access.

Let me mull this over a few times and I'm sure I'll have questions...


Thanks again for sharing!

[ozzy83]

Iguana,

You're most welcome. I haven't been on here in a while so sorry for the delay in replying. I plan on retrying the chemical PE protocol in a few months. I don't think Chemical PE combined with traditional stretching is gonna work for me now because it hasn't worked in the past. I plan on incorporating hanging and an ADS with chemical pe in my future plan as a last ditch effort to get some gains. I will update the forum once I start. Good luck to all. OZZY.

[remek]

Originally Posted by Ronielle

Any updates? I'm dying to find out how it's working. Still injecting caverject and igf-lr3?

I second the curiosity. How is everything? Any new gains/updates?

[Larger]

Originally Posted by remek

I second the curiosity. How is everything? Any new gains/updates?

I third it. Let's hear a report.