[JonPop]

Originally Posted by Betterman

Barack Obama, Fabian Socialist - Forbes.com

Correct your link B'man

I fixed it for him JP.

I would not mind socialism so much i were to have freedom of religion to believe and practice what i believe in.

[Betterman]

Sorry Fella's I entered it through Mobile.

[RockofFox]

Originally Posted by Dingdong

If taxation is so good, why not tax everyone 100 percent? If he says 100 percent taxation is good, ask him how that's any different than slavery. If he says it's not good, ask him what level of taxation IS good. When he gives an answer, ask him how he determined that number. When he pulls an answer out of his ass, ask him why he thinks that percentage is better than an even lower number. Ask him if he's ever considered the possibility that governments get less revenue if they tax beyond a certain level. Challenge your friend's basic assumptions about how the world works.

You could ask him why he thinks giving more power to a few government bureaucrats will result in more efficient use of resources and a better distribution of wealth. Ask him to cite some real-world examples of where this has worked. He will either attempt to change the subject because he has no answer, or he will only provide a bullshit example. Ask him why the Soviet Union and Eastern Block nations had shortages and low standards of living if socialism works so well.
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Let me first point out that there are clearly some people here who love their country. Phibby for one. And I admire that. Now I'm not here to piss anyone off. I always read your posts JonPop, Phibby, kingpole, in fact I've formed a bond with you blokes, because I respect you and you've helped me a lot. A couple of comments though, I have to question. Phibby (I read your song & associated postings), to say America is the greatest country in the world, whilst your entitled to your opinion, do you think it would only be other Americans that would agree with you? I think Australia is the greatest country in the world, who is more correct, me or you? Neither, their just opinions right?

When we talk about Capitalism or Communism, and to a lesser degree Socialism, there is never really a "true" society that 100% displays these qualities. Although America and North Korea would probably be the 2 societies that scream out as examples I would think.

Why do we need taxation? Is that a serious question? Australia has a very socialist tax system. The more you earn the more you get taxed. And it works in our society. Australia's economy has been one of the strongest performing economies in the last 2 years and is one of the only economies to continue growing and avoid a technical recession. Why? Well I work in Taxation, not economics, but I believe a huge part is government regulation. I would rather a few government bureaucrats control our wealth than a few greedy CEO's paying themselves, their wives, kids, dogs, kids dogs, massive bonus' irrespective of the performance that they have a fiduciary duty to perform.

My wife has had a baby, my wonderful and beautiful daughter was ill, had to go to hospital several times, had MRI, CT, EEG scans, medication for 1 year, constant specialist consultation, (all ok, now its all good!!!) I had heart issues, a while ago, in emergency for a day, had to see specialists and blah blah blah. ANYWAY, the point that I am trying to illustrate is, how much do you think I paid for these medical issues. Not a cent. Thats right, not one dollar did I have to contribute to anything here, can you imagine if I did? How can paying a few extra dollars in tax each week to help cover medicare liability be a bad thing? I dont understand it at all.

Energy deregulation> California> Enron.

How many banks have strong capitalist countries had nationalised?

Look, I am not trying to get up anyones goat, I am not advocating a true socialist culture, what I am saying is that no country has a perfect system. I feel the Australian mixed economy does very well, Prime Minister Rudd has kept the country out of recession with VERY socialist measures, and the evil eye is being cast very firmly on greedy corporates who dig into their companies purse to fund their own wine collection.

So Loftus when you are trying to rebut a socialist, good luck, there are far too many components, be it economic, social, political or whatever, to argue for most of us lamens, and people will come up with compelling and eloquent arguments for and against. I think if you look with an open mind, a true open mind, you may well find good and bad in the theory of both. Be it core ideologies "work harder for more gain" or "every one shall be treated equally", these ideals in themselves are not inherently bad are they? Of course not. We need aspects of both. What makes them bad? There is one think that every other issue stems from. Greed. Greedy communists and greedy capitalists, be it for money, power, fame, whatever. THATS the issue. Not a philosophy, doctrine or theory. Your mate Jesus was a fuking communist for ch1st sakes!!!!!!!!!! Love thy neighbour my good man. Love him and use his shortcomings as a great opportunity to learn more about yourself.

And if that doesnt work, flop your cock out in front of a group of people, openly declaring that "My cock is twice the size of yours!". If he doesnt, you will be declared the winner, and enjoy the spoils of your victory by blowjobs from all the chicks that saw you win your duel

[RockofFox]

Oh, and dont get me started on religion, its time for bed.

[PhibbysHammer]

Did I ever mention that Australia is my second most favorite country? Cheers mate and well written response.

[JonPop]

Your mate Jesus was a fuking communist for ch1st sakes!!!!!!!!!!

I am, as bad as I want too, not going to touch this. And I hope everyone else will realize that this very statement would open a very large can of worms. I am only going to say ROF, that was very rude to include this in an otherwise very good post.

[another1or2inches]

Originally Posted by RockofFox

So Loftus when you are trying to rebut a socialist, good luck, there are far too many components, be it economic, social, political or whatever, to argue for most of us lamens, and people will come up with compelling and eloquent arguments for and against. I think if you look with an open mind, a true open mind, you may well find good and bad in the theory of both. Be it core ideologies "work harder for more gain" or "every one shall be treated equally", these ideals in themselves are not inherently bad are they? Of course not. We need aspects of both. What makes them bad? There is one think that every other issue stems from. Greed. Greedy communists and greedy capitalists, be it for money, power, fame, whatever. THATS the issue. Not a philosophy, doctrine or theory. Your mate Jesus was a fuking communist for ch1st sakes!!!!!!!!!! Love thy neighbour my good man. Love him and use his shortcomings as a great opportunity to learn more about yourself.

Excellent post.

I never understand why some people think we have only one option - that it has to be only one thing or only another thing - only capitalism or only socialism. This "us" versus "them" mentality inhibits true progress and understanding. There is no such thing as a true capitalist society or a true communist society or a true socialist society. The United States has never been a pure capitalist country. All societies here on earth have components of different economic systems. The issue is which components do we choose for ourselves, how do we make that choice, and what are our true priorities.

For example, if we want true universal healthcare, how do we achieve that? Who cares what label we give it, let's figure out which program will actually provide the greatest coverage for the greatest number of people. We've already seen that health insurance is outrageously expensive and does not provide adequate medical coverage, so let's look at other options - WITH AN OPEN MIND.

As Phibby pointed out, we Americans are truly one of the most generous people on earth. We have a long history of giving huge amounts of money and support to other countries. We have spent approximately $900 trillion in Iraq and Afganistan since 2001, but then some Americans explode in anger over the prospect of providing health care to Americans or spending money to try to keep our economy afloat. Do we care more about the Iraqis than we do about our own families or our own economy? Why are we so generous with other countries but so stingy with our own people?

[JonPop]

Ah. And the political agenda rears it's ugly head, once more.

Believe me guys. Nothing will kill a good forum like the topics of religion or politics.

[another1or2inches]

Not to be too picky here, but would somebody please correct the spelling of "rebuttal" in the title of this thread. lol

[JonPop]

Originally Posted by another1or2inches

Not to be too picky here, but would somebody please correct the spelling of "rebuttal" in the title of this thread. lol

Done.