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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch Armstrong
Exactly my point.
we know these things because of evidence.
The scientific community calls jelqing a farce and dangerous. The people who use it says it works but out of all these people not a single one can provide legitimate evidence?
My dicks bigger, thats all the evidence i need, the proof is in my pants! Then if were arguing about gravity, then what about god? If god created the universe then who created god? NOBODY knows!
Most computers have built in cameras that make it easy to take a picture hands free. Maybe you don't feel motivated but there are many advocates of PE and you would think someone, like say a person who builds and runs a site like this would be interested in and take the time to show the process, document it; Be a pioneer in research. Put the naysayers to restQuote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
If you have the time to run this site, if you have the time to jelq an hour a day, you don't think one could take the time to document their experience with measurements and photos to back them up?
I've search all over the net and found no evidence of jelqing actually working other than word of mouth. I've heard doctors say it's bs and can actually damage the penis.
What do you consider legitimate evidence?Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesBukowski
There is considerable testimony, from men with no conflict of interest, available on this site to the efficacy of PE. Why do you not consider that legitimate evidence?
What scientific proof is there by the "scientific community" that shows PE does not work? All you have from doctors is them saying it's not possible, blah blah, but here there is actual proof. You want some "scientific" proof, buy and read this. https://www.pegym.com/exercising-the-penis-enlargement-bookQuote:
Originally Posted by CharlesBukowski
People used to say the same thing about exercise and weight lifting.
There was also testimony that so and so was a witch in the 1800's, and women were burned at the stake based on testimony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
Legitimate evidence would be a peer reviewed study done by the scientific community, with data and photographic evidence. Or even a message board with PE participants showing before and after pics along with their stats. With the internet you can be anonymous and you don't have to post your face I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet is all I'm saying. With so many people claiming it works you'd think there would be at least a little bit of legitimate evidence besides strictly word of mouth.
The scientific community has a system by which they test and carry out experiments to gather evidence. Testimony without evidence is suspicious to me, it's not objective.
There could be a number of reasons why people are saying this works. Beginners caught with wishful thinking, delusion, denial, swelling, a psychological issue that caused them to feel their penis was smaller than it actually was and jelqing acts as a placebo to said psychological disorder. The way it's being measured, the way the heat and the stretching may actually stretch and swell the penis momentarily thus providing a false illusion of growth that is not lasting.
As far as what I read against PE was this article. It was a Web MD article posted on a jelqing site that all the jeqers scoffed at.
Jelqing: Ancient Secret or Hoax?
Secret Longings
By Martin Downs
Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
WebMD Feature
The pursuit of penis enlargement is as old as the quest for a baldness cure. With surgery and drugs, modern medicine is finally making progress on both fronts, but medical solutions can be expensive, and they often yield less than miraculous results. So men continue to be wooed by "natural" potions and schemes that promise quick growth up top, and down below.
A technique called jelqing has become popular among men seeking greater penis size. Web sites that promote jelqing and online clubs for jelqing enthusiasts abound: A Google search for "jelq" yields nearly 19,000 results.
Those who promote jelqing claim that it's an "ancient Arab" technique, which lends it an exotic air -- summoning images of sultry harems and Salome's Dance of the Seven Veils. Whether the practice originates in the Middle East, however, no one WebMD contacted could say. Sex historian Vern Bullough says he has never heard of it, and queries to the Kinsey Institute and professors of Middle Eastern studies at several universities shed no more light on the matter.
There are many variations on the technique, but the basic routine involves stroking the penis with a milking motion: Starting from the base, you slide your hand up the shaft, pulling and squeezing. Then you repeat the motion. You don't slide your hand over the head and back down the shaft as you would if you were masturbating. Instead, you stop when you reach the head, and start again from the base of the penis.
Depending on what jelqing manual you follow, you may be instructed to jelq while your penis is flaccid, in a semi-erect state, or with a full erection. Some advise you to "warm up" with hot-towel wraps. Some recommend jelqing with lubrication, while others don't include lube. You might jelq with the palm facing up or down. Jelqing schedules and the duration of the routine often differ.
The promised results vary, too. Some hucksters say you'll gain three to four inches in length. Other advocates are more modest.
Happy Jelqers
Thomas, a 27-year-old student in New Jersey, says he began jelqing nearly a year ago. He stands six-foot-five, but he has an average-sized penis -- about six inches long. "As a taller person, I felt that I was short-changed," he says.
So far, he's pleased with the results. "I notice a better flaccid hang, first off," he says. He also claims to have gained three-eighths of an inch in length and five-eighths of an inch in girth, when erect, by jelqing for 45 minutes a day for five days, then taking two days off, for six weeks at a time.
Another jelqer, a 24-year-old man who prefers to remain anonymous, claims to have had more dramatic gains since he began jelqing eight months ago. He says his penis, which measured five inches erect, is now six and one-quarter inches long.
Both men say they have never paid for jelqing information. They follow advice available for free at penis-enlargement discussion groups online. Nevertheless, some Web sites sell access to their jelqing programs for as much as $50.
Doctors Scoff
Jelqers may believe that the technique works, but they are mistaken about how. You may hear that by pushing blood into the erectile tissue of the penis, you can expand the chambers -- the corpora cavernosa -- so they eventually hold more blood, resulting in bigger erections. You may also hear that jelqing exercises the smooth muscle of the penis, making it bigger and stronger.
"I think that's all bogus," says Tom Lue, MD, professor of urology at the University of California, San Francisco. He says that only swelling, caused by bleeding under the skin, could explain the increases in penis size men like Thomas experience. This result would not be permanent, hence the need to follow a rigorous jelqing regimen indefinitely.
The idea that the smooth muscle of the penis can be exercised , like the biceps, is a myth. "Smooth muscle doesn't respond that way," Lue says. In fact, stretching it can be harmful. For example, the bladder is smooth muscle. According to Lue, if you hold in urine so that the bladder expands too much, the tissue weakens.
What's more, Lue says, all the stretching, pulling, and squeezing might cause scar tissue to form in the penis, which could hinder a man's ability to get an erection. But Thomas maintains that apart from a little soreness, he hasn't injured his penis by jelqing, and he says his erections last longer than they did before.
"Anatomically and physiologically this is just wishful thinking," urologist Ira Sharlip, president of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America, writes in an email. "It's all baloney until a real study with objective before and after measurements, verified by an independent source [since you can't do a placebo comparison], proves that it works."
Published Dec. 23, 2002.
SOURCES: Ira Sharlip, MD, president, Sexual Medicine Society of North America; and medical director, Pan Pacific Urology, San Francisco • Tom Lue, MD, professor and vice chairman of urology, University of California, San Francisco • Vern Bullough, visiting professor, University of Southern California; and distinguished professor emeritus, State University of New York.
If somebody argues that god exists it's up to them to prove it to me not me to prove them their wrong. They are the one making the claim. If you claim that PE does work then it is up to you to prove that it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemOne
If it does work it shouldn't be that hard to prove. It's quite simply really. I'm just surprised with all these communities and people that not one person has been able to provide any solid proof.
Or how about all the people hawking PE books and Vids. Why not show before and after pics in those? Fuck if they could prove it, they could develop a system and make a ton of money.
I would spend money on the book that was able to show me proof.
Alright look here's the deal: You can believe who you want to and what you want to. You can be as skeptical as you like.But if you're interested in this and want to give this a shot, everyone here is helpful enough to help you through the process. There's no point in arguing. You either do it or you don't.
Are you just here to just argue that PE cannot work because the opinions of a few doctors say it cannot work and disregard all factual statements of people who have seen gains?