You guys have got to see this...

[rodm Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rodm]

(WO/2004/011029) PHARMACEUTICAL COMPOSITIONS FOR PENIS ENLARGEMENT

The following experimental examples are illustrative of the use of this invention.
Example 1 A male patient, age 41, was treated with intracavernosal injections of a vasodilator, prostaglandin El, on a regular basis (approximately four to five times per week) over an 18 month treatment period. A sufficient quantity was administered to maintain a prolonged engorgement of an erectile response between 40-75% over a period of several hours, generally 3 to 6 hours. The quantity of medication was adjusted from time to time in accordance with the patient's response, which was monitored at least weekly.
The size of the patient's fully erect penis increased from 5.8 inches to 8.6 inches in length (about an 48% increase) and 3.7 inches to 5.8 inches in girth (about an 56% increase) over the 18-month treatment period. Following the discontinuation of this treatment, the erect penis length remained stable for two years at over 8 1/2 inches. Treatment was re- institued combining intracavemosal injections 3-4 times per week of a mixture of testosterone (0.5 mg) and vasodilators with low dose oral Potaba (500-1000 mg) 3-4 times per day. After a short treatment period of 2 1/2 months, the patient's erect penis was over 9 inches in length, which means he has gained an additional 0.4-0. 5 inches in length (about an 6% increase). The total increase in length was therefore about 3.2 inches (about an 55% increase) in length.

Example 2 A male patient, age 30, was treated with intracavemosal injections of the vasodilator on a regular basis (approximately four to five times per week) over a 6-month treatment period. A sufficient quantity was administered to maintain a prolonged engorgement over a period of about 3 to 6 hours. The quantity of medication was adjusted in accordance with the patient's response. The potentiator potaba (aminobenzoate) (1000 mg/4 times per day) was administered orally to the patient for the last 60 days of treatment.

Historically, relaxin has been classified as a"pregnancy hormone"that acts on reproductive tissues only during pregnancy, preparing the female for parturition by "relaxing"the pelvic ligaments and tendons. However, recent evidence suggests that relaxin may be classified as a"master hormone"that also induces biochemical changes in a number of non-reproductive tissues

Relaxin directly and indirectly triggers a cascade of complex biochemical and cellular effects that can cause general morphological changes to genitalia.

The potentiator may be an agent which activates the androgen receptor, which is involved with male sexual development and function. For example, the potentiator may be an androgen hormone such as, but not limited to, the naturally occurring androgens and derivatives thereof, including androsterone, androsterone acetate, androsterone propionate, androsterone benzoate, androstenediol, androstenediol-3-acetate, androstenediol-17- acetate, androstenediol-3,17-diacetate, androstenediol-17-benzoate, androstenediol-3- acetate-17-benzoate, androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA; also termed "prasterone")

The firmness of the penis generally decreases over this period, but will be at least 40% engorged for at least 3 and preferably up to 6 hours and less than 75% engorged for the majority of the time. The treatment is repeated over a period of time sufficient to cause a permanent increase in the length and girth of the patient's penis. The treatment may comprise administration with the composition alone, or in conjunction with potentiator. For example, the treatment may be repeated daily or at least two times a week over a period of several weeks or at least one month. More preferably, the treatment may be repeated at least 3-4 times a week for a period of at least 3 months. For treatment periods of between 12 and 18 months, an increase of at least 5% may be achieved in the length and girth of an erect penis, and increases of at least 30% or even at least 50% in the length and girth of an erect penis may be achieved. Active treatment for more extended periods, e. g. 24 months, may yield greater results.

CIPO - Patent - 2486714

[SJman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close SJman]

Interesting read...

But the part about needles sort of puts me off... and their "illustrative" examples proposing
a gain from 5.8 to 8.6 inches in length, and 3.7 to 5.8 inches in girth... they seem quite
unrealistic, even in an 18-month period. But hey, maybe it'll be the start of a revolution?

That being said, I think I'll just stick with what has been proven by so many guys here
to work. No way am I gonna be shooting myself up with that stuff assuming it ever
passes FDA trials... might grow a second or third penis out of my shoulders or something.

Hmmm... On second thought... Wait, NO!!

[rodm Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rodm]

I understand: I just posted it, so you guys could read it...Here is more info from another person...


I promised to write to the board after I returned from my trip to visit Dr. Adams, the owner of the 5159 patent. Originally, I had intended to simply write a letter about what he offered, and his thoughts on PE. However, after just responding to Chanceya1975, it seems that the experience levels of the members of this board is an unknown. Some, or perhaps most, are apparently not well versed in the medical side of male health issues, so I am going to write a much more basic letter than originally intended so that those who are just starting out will have more of their questions answered. To those that are well versed, I apologize for making this letter longer than necessary and for being redundant. My goal is simply to prevent the errors that have already happened to some board members from happening to others.

Before reading this letter, it would be helpful if you were to read the letter that I just sent to Chanceya1975, as this will serve as one reason for the depth and style of this letter.

As this letter may be used as "road map" for beginners, I will try to go into details that are basic to men's health, but with which I did not discuss with Dr. Adams.

Dr. Kenneth W. Adams, MD, DDS, owns and does business under the trade name MTMC (Male Therapeutic Medical Clinic) Male Therapeutics. His address is 1200 Sheppard Avenue, East, Suite 509, North York, Ontario, M2K 2S5 His phone number is 416-693-3905. His web site is Drs4men.com

I was given a pamphlet about Dr. Adams from one of the PA's (physician assistants) there that describes Dr. Adams experience. Dr. Adams is around 50 years old. In his past history he was worked "as the medical director for one of the largest and busiest men's clinics in North America" Further, "Dr. Adams has assessed, treated, optimized the sex hormones and sexual performance in over 30,000 men" Dr. Adams is also a surgeon, but restricts his surgery to hair transplantation. Since he went into private practice, he does not do many surgeries anymore.

Dr. Adams has a fair sized clinic that is set up to be as discrete for the patient as possible. He employs three clerical people, two physician assistants and a business manager (accountant). His office is in a nice, relatively new office building just off the 41 freeway in the greater Toronto, Canada area.

In addition to the more traditional men's clinic items of specialty, which are fixing low libido, ED, hair loss, Dr. Adams also offers a penis enlargement program.

The clinic is set up for his needs. The office is clean and neat, and the staff is friendly. To give the patients the maximum amount of discretion, the office has quite a number of small rooms that I would describe as "cubicles." Each is about 5' wide about 9 feet deep. There is a comfortable chair, stool, and TV that is hooked up to cable TV. This is designed so that you will not come into contact with any other patient in the office. You are escorted to your cubicle, given the clicker to choose what you want to watch on TV and wait to see the next person who will treat you. While you are in your cubicle, others may be in the hallway, but you are not in a hallway when any other patient is. When you are in your cubicle, or in an office, the doors are always closed. Occasionally, you can hear some other patient talking, but that is quite infrequent.

When you first meet one of the PA's you are taken to another cubicle and the tv is turned to a channel that has a CD playing a recording of Dr. Adams talking about different subjects. One DVD deals with ED. Another deals with Hormones, and if you are there for PE, one deals with the basics of PE. This seems a nice way to educate beginners, and answer the basic questions that most guys have that come to a clinic like that for the first time.

When the DVD's finish, you are then taken to one of the PA's office for a health history. I met "Riz" (short for Riswah- and as you can guess, Riswah is of Indian heritage) who is a very nice guy. He is outgoing, easy to talk to, and knowledgeable. The PA will take down your medical history, take blood samples if needed, take your blood pressure and generally do what is needed so that when you meet Dr. Adams, your time is productive.

At this point, I am a bit different than the average patient, and so my experience was a bit different. I have ED, which was caused by a fall that damaged my pudential artery, so I already have prescriptions for Caverject, and more. I am also in an anti aging program that supplies me with Growth Hormone, as well as Testosterone. I brought all of my medicines, discussed them with Riz and shortened my time there considerably. The normal patient would have those areas explored as well, and it would serve the patient well to know what his various hormone levels are. My blood tests from my anti aging program are extensive, so all that they needed was there.

For the normal patient, blood levels may be taken if needed, although for strictly for a PE program that would not be needed. It may well be advantageous though for a patient to do the blood tests so that a "baseline" set of values can be obtained. This will be helpful later in life, as in the aging process our hormone levels decline.

The PA's also have teaching aids (dildo's) to teach proper injection technique, how to use an auto injector, penis measurement, etc. They will also teach how to withdraw the contents from a bottle of quad mix without ruining the bottles seal.

After the PA is finished with you, you meet Dr. Adams. He is a very nice guy. He is rather quiet, and has a quick smile. He will assess the information given, discuss your goals with you, give you an examination, and for the PE process, give you an injection of tri mix to begin the titration process. The process is timed, with you being taken back to a cubicle to watch more TV and keep up with the length of time that you are erect.

Should you have a priapism, Dr. Adams has another injection that will end the erection in less than 10 minutes, and has them ready to go at all time. The goal for the first step of titration is simply to obtain an initial reaction. The next day, you will be given another injection, only this time, you will give it to yourself with Dr. Adams, or one of the PA's watching to see that you do it correctly. The length of your erection is also timed, while you wait in a cubicle.

The goal time for your erection is TWO HOURS. This will probably surprise most readers after they have read the patent and all the talk of long term erections. This length of time is only for the PE patients, as the typical ED patient will be titrated for a one hour erection.(although certainly when you gain experience, extending that erection time is simply a trial and error method). The important part here is that everyone has a different "titration curve" or to put it another way, the amount of quad mix that you need just depends upon your own body's needs.

Ok, at this point, I am going to digress a minute and make a pitch for you, the reader to consider becoming Dr. Adams patient, or alternatively to make a check list so that you can assess what you may receive from another physician in this area.

With Dr. Adams you get:
1. Complete discretion in your medical wants. You will not see another patient while there, so for you guys who are shy, you will not be embarrassed.
2. You will get complete medical care in regards to your overall health as it relates to PE, can get blood work done as a check, or if you feel like your libido (desire for sex) is less than it could be, they can check that and get you fixed up at the same time.
3. Will give you the right product to give you an erection so that you will not end up as our member Chanceya1975 did by going to his physician.
4. Teach you correct injection technique, and guys, this is IMPORTANT.
5. Titrate your dosage of quad mix so that you know how much you need for future activity.
6. Since they are the only clinic that I know of with a PE program, you can be completely honest in your intentions with the Doctor.
7 They supply the quad mix and needles as part of the program. So you know what you are getting. You can also buy an auto injector from them to make injections easier.

All in all, it is a pretty good case for being Dr. Adams patient. Now of course, traveling to Toronto, Canada may not be feasible. If it is not, then at least you know what to look for when you assess a men's health clinic.

And should you decide to visit a typical men's health clinic, do tell them that you have performance anxiety rather than ED. The reason is that (hopefully) they will realize that you do not have a problem in GETTING an erection, so the dosage to KEEP the erection is much lower. One of our members did to to a men's clinic, but the doctor did not put a lot of thought into the dosage amount, and started him with a dosage for a person with ED. As a result, he got a priapism, and that is not good.

There is one more thought about this that is worth considering. We men tend to be a bit stoic at times. When something happens to our health, we tend to want to just hope that things get better and wait as long as possible before seeking professional medical help. When it is our penis that is the problem, a whole lot of us are modest, or perhaps afraid to risk our ego to have anyone know what we are really doing. These are bad traits when it comes to medical problems that involve our penis, as you most certainly can be hurt by injection incorrectly. Well, with Dr. Adams, there is no need to have modesty, or ego enter into the equation. You and the Dr. both know exactly what you are doing, and the only question is your health in achieving your goals. I submit that this is the best care standard that is out there, and one that for the average guy, works the best.

Ok, back to my experience with Dr. Adams. In my discussions with the Dr. we discussed the basic idea behind the PE method. The term that is used is "tissue remodeling." The tunica is made up mainly of collagen. Collagen is like fibers. They start out laying next to each other but quickly become "cross linked" which makes them stronger, but still pliable. By unlinking the collagen (partially) and stretching the penis, it is like opening the weave in cloth. Only in this case, the collagen goes back together with some space in it that is soon filled with more collagen.

For the basic program, the most active chemical is PGE-1 which not only gives an erection, but also "unlinks" a portion of collagen, allowing for the stretching that follows to slowly expand the tissue length of the penis. So the basic program is simply the two hour erection that is induced with quad mix, and 30 minutes a day of stretching.

At first, I had a hard time accepting that, because I have used caverject for12 years and have not gained any length, and in fact, have lost length. Well, the reason was that I was not stretching during that time, as to the reason that I did not gain, and the reason that I lost length was due to poor blood flow (caused by the accident I had which damaged my pudential artery). Certainly as I pondered that I guess that I have accepted it, and it certainly makes PE easy. Results that are anticipated are 3/8" per month on average. So the basic program is to use the quad mix four times a week to obtain a two hour erection, with stretching exercises every day for 30 minutes a day. In the stretching exercises Dr. Adams suggests that the whole hand be used to grasp the penis, that the penis be "milked" at first to get some blood into the head of the penis, and that 70% of all stretching be pulling down, with the rest being equally divided between left, right, up and out directions.

I did not mention the fact that I had a copy of his patent with me as I did not want to bring up anything that may have any degree of controversy with it. But in our conversation about "accelerating" the results we did discuss:

1. Growth hormone. In my case, I already take GH as part of my anti aging program. Normally, I inject into the fat on the side of my waist. I asked him about using GH in the program. He said that in Canada, GH is very difficult to get and must be used only for cases of dwarfism. So basically, GH is not available in Canada for prescription. This would also apply to growth factors such as IGF-1 or 2, so I did not bring those up. Since I was already on GH he suggested that I inject above the central tendon (at the 12 o'clock position) so that the injection is sub cutaneous, but not in the tendon. He also warned me about my not wanting to inject deeply as I would hit the artery, and that would take a lot of effort to stop the bleeding there. So a "tenting" of the skin was suggested. I have done one shot that way, and it requires a bit of manual dexterity, but all in all, it is easy enough..

2. We discussed the use of the hormone Relaxin as a tissue remodeler. For humans, Relaxin is GREAT tissue remodeler, and is used in the birthing process. It is what opens the vagina so that a baby can come down the vagina during birth. So, its role in opening collagen is well documented. The sad thing about Relaxin is that human recombinant Relaxin has not been manufactured since 2002. It was manufactured as a potential aid for Scleroderma patients, but it did not help much, so the manufacturing of it stopped. And this means that it is not available. I mentioned to Dr. Adams that I have porcine relaxin and he was surprised to hear that. I am sending him a bottle for him to take a look at and to see if it is beneficial to a PE effort.

3. Testosterone and DHT. In my case, I also take Testosterone in a creme form for my anti aging program. Dr. Adams suggested that I apply some of my creme to my penis and testicles as that will convert it to DHT and that it would be helpful. As to adding it to his PE program he does not do that very much. DHT is also supervised in Canada, as it is in the US. He did say that it would be helpful to use in if I had it.

4. I did not ask about DMSO since it is so cheap, and easy to get, Anyone wanting to try it out should have little problems in getting it, and since it is included as being helpful in the patent, it did not seem worth the effort to discuss.

I had a lot of other thoughts as I was there, but they were mostly my curiosity about how the patent was put together, who magnumforce was, etc. but as they are not relevant to a PE effort, I did not go there.

I hope that I have been helpful to the members of the board.

[Big Al AdministratorPEGym EditorMale Enhancement Coach Rep.PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Big Al]

This is another one of those "Chemical PE" posts. There may be something to the vasodilators used to induced controlled priapism, but penile androgen receptors downregulate after puberty. If you have normal or better T levels don't expect much from that portion of the treatment.

In all, it's quite risky and unpleasant when there are more viable options available. Like surgery, "chemical PE" by itself will do nothing for strengthening your penis (on the contrary). Remember, the bigger your penis the more blood you're going to need to supply to it just to maintain erection levels.

Here's a post that's dealt with this subject in detail:

https://www.pegym.com/forums/pe-theo...emical-pe.html

[first Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close first]

Does the penis have any relaxin receptors, however?

[Big Al AdministratorPEGym EditorMale Enhancement Coach Rep.PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Big Al]

Relaxin receptors are found in smooth muscle and connective tissues. I've seen a few PE patents mentioning this hormone as a potentiator.

[shane_syndrome Banned Find all posts View Profile Close shane_syndrome]

didn't iguana post this like last year

[moonshine Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonshine]

Wow thats amazing. Does anyone know of any doctors who are practicing this type of work?

[Big Al AdministratorPEGym EditorMale Enhancement Coach Rep.PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Big Al]

Wow thats amazing. Does anyone know of any doctors who are practicing this type of work?

Dr. Runels is involved with pharmaceutical PE. Search for username "DrRunels" for his posts.

[kingpole Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close kingpole]

Hmm interesting....but do those gains last and what are the side effects??

[moonshine Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonshine]

Hey Big Al I looked up Dr.Runels and it appears that he just gives you one "priapus shot" and thats it. I'm more interested in the link above that gives multiple shots to induce 2 hour erections for growth. Do you know if there are any doctors who practice this?

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

I was part of a group of about 10 guys that tried this method for 6 months. Don't waste your time or money.

[moonshine Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonshine]

yeah I did more research and saw that it didn't work our for most guys. I guess chemical pe is not so great after all

[sam2591 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sam2591]

Iguana, when you were part of this group you used igf1 lr3 correct? Why did you not use igf 1 rh it is in fact proven to act on receptors without being hindered by a artificial binding protein that although increases the half life makes the igf ineffective until needed by the body. The question now is that will this artificial binding protein even release the igf before the supposedly "improved" half life ends??

moonshine, the most powerful compounds that the body can utilize are hormones we just have to figure out which ones and under what circumstances. In my eyes there is always hope, whether it is by regular manual pe or chemically stimulated.

[moonshine Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonshine]

Yeah I just really got my hopes up after reading the initial article posted on this thread. I mean those are some serious gains through chemical pe! But after reading that other members have tried it without any results has me a little skeptical. In theory it does make sense doesn't it? Inducing 2 hour rock hard erection multiple times a week you would think would force all the tissue in the penis to expand. I don't know I guess I'll wait to see if anyone has any real success with this method.

Until then your right manual pe does work, but it does take an awful long time and a lot of hard work! Just gotta keep on truckin' for now.