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  • The HANS Protocol

    The HANS Protocol
    Hardflaccid And Neuromuscular Syndromes


    My way of treating hard flaccid and pelvic floor dysfunction.
    -For those with a little tension all the way to those who have full blown hard flaccid.
    -This can also be helpful in treating Premature Ejaculation

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Reviews and Success Stories:


    "Your protocol is a game changer. I'm currently using it. Thx"
    -Capalus


    "For anybody who starts treating hard flaccid now know that there is hope, the exercises from this thread helped me to fix my own hard flaccid"
    -lx187


    "Thank you so much for this thread btw"
    -A Weekend



    See more


    2/13/2017
    READ THIS FIRST!!!

    THREAD INSTRUCTIONS:
    The reason this thread may seem disorganized is because this thread was originally a progress log when I had hard flaccid and pelvic pain (see date above my name) and I would like to keep it that way so you guys can see the progress I had made over time and that is why the info you need is spread out among the first 3 pages. As will be mentioned later in this thread, read through the whole thing, the exercises (stretches, yoga, and other tips) are in either
    brown or red on the log. This is only three pages compared to the other
    hard flaccid thread that was almost 400 pages. Take notes and get committed to a routine. I am happy to help but, I can only help those who help themselves, and that is also a life motto of mine. I spent many hours writing this and went through a lot of pain and psychological hell for this thread to exist and it's important that you please take the time to read everything and do the work. I am happy to answer questions about the thread or if you are struggling to fully understand something but as previously mentioned, give it a glance or two.
    Thanks.



    Disclaimer:
    If you think you have an actual PF dysfunction. I suggest that you pursue a PT if you can. Although I feel everyone has the right to read this, this is primarily intended for those either living in a country where PF physical therapy is inaccessible or for people who can't afford the treatment. I will not disclose who I got this therapy from for privacy purposes so please don't ask.
    Thanks and happy squatting!


    Table of contents:
    Page 1 (all on post #1)

    • Reviews and Success Stories
    • Thread Instructions
    • Disclaimer:
    • Signs of a pelvic floor dysfunction:
    • Definitions
    • Things to remember
    • Bad PF habits
    • Focus
    • My story
    • Posture & Sitting (HANS RK-Posture Supersets)
    • Tennis ball massage & Internal Massage
    • Moving Forward
    • Your mental state
    • Penis Enlargement and The Pelvic Floor
    • Mental Aspects and Techniques
    • belly breath combos and knees to chest stretch (important exercise #1)


    Page 2
    • Hindi Squats (important exercise #2) (post 14)
    • Happy baby and wall happy baby (important exercise 3) (post 22)



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Signs of a pelvic floor dysfunction:

    Frequent urination
    uncomfortable sitting
    painful urination
    urinary retention
    sore perineum
    sore rectum
    straining to defecate
    (which may seem like constipation) or flatulate (NEVER STRAIN IF YOU ARE CONSTIPATED (or ever, tbh)!!! This can result in nerve damage, take stool softeners!!!)
    pains in penis, testicles (dull ache), and urethra (usually burning or stinging)
    pelvic pain (pains in crotch) could be pins and needles, burning
    Erectile dysfunction
    Premature Ejaculation
    hyper contracted genitals (hard flaccid)
    pain around thighs, buttocks, hip (usually from sitting)
    tension in lower abdominals ("sucking in")
    lower back pains
    Severe depression, stress, and anxiety
    fatigue which may come in bouts
    symptoms alleviated upon awakening in the morning
    symptoms worsening throughout the day
    due to the muscle tension, you may have trigger points that can cause referred pain due to the nerves and spinal cord.
    numbness, most likely due to tension on the nerves (possibly the pudental nerve)


    Definitions
    EQ- erection quality, how good your erections are

    ED-erectile dysfunction, (low EQ) doesn't just apply to old people, can define weak erections or inability to maintain erections without constant stimulation. This is usually the result of over masturbation

    PF-pelvic floor

    PC muscle-
    Pubococcygeus muscle

    BC muscle-
    Bulbospongiosus muscle

    IC muscle-
    Ischiocavernosus muscle

    Levator Ani muscle-
    Levator ani

    K- kegel

    Rk- reverse kegel

    IK- involuntary kegel

    Pre E-premature ejaculation

    PE- penis enlargement or premature ejaculation (depends on context)

    Edging- a method of stamina training to make you last longer in bed


    HF- an internet-based term that is completely alien to the medical field as is pf dysfunction. It happens when the penis and scrotum become hyper contracted due to a restriction of blood flow to the penis, causing erectile dysfunction. Common causes include exercise and severe anxiety. Chronic Hard Flaccid is the problem people face where the genitals remain in a hyper contracted state. Common causes are pf tension, severe anxiety, stress, depression etc that is consistent and doesn't go away. The people who have this are usually tense, anxious, an worst of all, completely unaware that their psyche might be responsible for most of it.


    more to come.
    Despite my hard flaccid being cured I was still suffering from CPPS or at least something of similar nature. My urologist said it was most likely a pelvic floor injury due to the excessive amount of kegeling I had been doing from years of masturbation and intentional kegeling. My main problems now involve straining with bowels and pain in the genitals.
    I decided to make this thread because there are still some people suffering from HF and there is a minuscule amount of phys therapy threads on this forum. I will try to update as much as possible and discuss what actions have been taken.
    Feel free to ask me any questions regarding therapy, I will do my best to answer.

    EDIT 1/2/2017:
    I have decided to bold all the important info so you don't have to look through everything. My pleasure
    Be on the lookout for more updates as I am trying to be as specific as possible and include as much info as possible.

    -indicates updated info,
    You may want to reread the thread in case you missed some of them because they will be removed as time goes by to keep things more orderly.

    THINGS TO REMEMBER:
    1)The 3 most important exercises should only be seen as "fillers". i.e. do them when you have free time.
    Do the belly breath combos whenever you can throughout the day.

    2)The rest of the yoga and stretching should be done at least once a day.
    Note that this is bare minimum. What I've come to learn is, the more the merrier. I recommend atleast 2-3 times a day. BUT.... 5 is better than 3... just saying.

    3)You don't have to abstain from sexual activity but you may if you think it will help.
    You should masturbate no more than 4 times per week.
    When you masturbate or have sex, do some squatting afterwards.


    4)Obviously, NO KEGELS or PE while you have an overractive pelvic floor.

    5)I have found porn to be more harmful than helpful. DO NOT use it for edging as it is a distraction from focusing on keeping things relaxed, and it desensitizes your dopamine receptors and also causes PreE, ED and Performance Anxiety.
    Please watch this informational video on Porn Addiction. (Thanks Big Al)

    6)I would reccomend against any heavy lifting, as this can cause tension.

    7)If you are NOT SEEING IMPROVEMENTS in your PF, then you may have to change things up. Reduce other exercises and sexual activity, do more belly breath combo or squatting etc.

    8) Once you have found relief, DO NOT STOP. You must maintain your relief by continuing with whatever you were doing to make it this far in the first place.
    You run the risk of the tension returning.

    9)Although most of this applies to the individuals with hard flaccid/CPPS/PF dysfunction, it can still benefit the one who just have a little tension (like maybe you just have a few bad PF habits that need to be cut out) as the situation usually varies from person to person. You may not need to do everything, but it has helped me so hopefully it will help you as well.


    10) Keep your stress and anxiety levels under control because it will aggravate the condition. Self Awareness is key here. It's easy to repress stress and therefore become unaware of it.


    11)Just because your doctor is confused doesn't mean he is an idiot, if he suggests counseling and he is the 8th doctor you've seen
    , see the counselor.

    12) Feel free to add other poses if you wish (you really should). Just make sure to do them correctly and time your implemented belly breath combos correctly.
    Some of these poses include:
    1) child's pose
    2)reclined butterfly
    3) downward dog pose
    (thanks Pegasus)

    13) I suggest doing the stretches and yoga on a bed of some sort, i get a much better stretch on a cushioned surface.


    14) It is possible to over stretch the pf muscles, if you feel some soreness in your muscles after the hindi, do less next time. You don't want soreness. (thanks Pegasus)

    15) A lot of soreness you have in your perineum can be eliminated via tennis ball massage.

    *16) Start the stretching 3 weeks after the first day you think you strained a PF muscle, this ensures that the strained muscle has healed.


    Make sure to look through the whole thread to get all the exercies to do, I am not putting them here because I want you to read through everything. Everything is important.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    BAD PF HABITS

    I am also going to address some bad PF habits that may apply to you if you have an overactive pelvic floor and need to be cut out.


    1) kegeling to get the last drops of urine out-do rks after urination, requires LOTS of focus

    2)
    constant kegeling while engaging in any form of sexual activity--this can causes Pre Ejaculation and a sore perineum. Again, do belly breath combos (breathing reverse kegel) while edging, traditional masturbation, or sex. You don't have to be perfect, but if your muscles get sore then you are over doing it.
    I've noticed that it's better to treat these with the Isolated Reverse Kegel mentioned lower (advanced).

    3)omitted

    4) kegeling when laying down on stomach-this is most likely caused by TMS (yourbrainonporn.com) and/or #2, do (cobra pose) with belly breath combos

    5)kegeling when leaning forward-may be caused by pressure on the perineum, belly breath combos when leaning forward...keep doing the yoga

    6)
    Catching your rectum or any of your pf muscles tensing and having to consciously relax them- This is the primary bad habit of a PF dysfunction, it is a clear indication that you need to start on the yoga and rks. The tense rectum might be levator ani syndrome.

    The term used to describe what you are doing in each of these is called an Involuntary Kegel or IK. It's a very common habit that forms when one learns about contracting his PC muscles consciously or maybe even subconsciously. These kegels can be either a light contraction/spasm all the way to a hard clench depending on your habits. Mine used to be clenches. These need to be cut out ASAP to ensure a balanced (healthy) pelvic floor.

    Belly breath combos=very important

    Lots of focus, consistency, and motivation is required to break these habits.


    Understand that there is a various degree of tension involved with the IKs. There's a simple spasm, and there's a clench. Technically speaking, a kegel is a clench, and a light kegel is a spasm. Although both are bad, spasms aren't necessarily harmful per se. To put this into perspective, a spasm can happen during sex, but even if it's causing Pre E, it's not actually hurting the individual. If the individual is actually clenching and even holding the clench, he will end up with the sore perineum. This is where it gets harmful.
    Note: some light spasm are normal (bulbocavernosus reflex)



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    FOCUS
    It is very important to maintain a large degree of focus when doing all of this. Think of it like this, you are simply "telling/reminding" your pelvic floor to relax because it thinks it is supposed to tense. This means that your are going to have to catch yourself tensing up in your everyday life and do some belly breath combos to "remind" your pelvic floor to relax. If you're driving, do the belly breath combos, if your sitting down at your job, belly breath combos.
    It is also important to make this become a routine so you can get into a habit, which is what PF dysfunction is, a bad habit,or better yet, a series of bad habits.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    MY STORY (HF Theory)
    I get a lot of questions on how I cured my hard flaccid and to be quite honest the answer is....
    Nothing. That's right, I did absolutely nothing. It went away after 2 weeks of me just trying to get by and move on with my life. It's hard to say why it turned out this way, but I have three theories.
    I am almost certain that I strained a BC/PC muscle in my pelvic floor due to penile stretching while kegel clenching because my PF was overractive in that sense. (see "tug of war theory" in the pink section) In my opinion, i think it's best to make sure that when you do PE, you only kegel when required, like if your actually trying to engorge the penis because it's needed for a certain exercise such as clamping. Keep everything relaxed while you do your exercises (with a balanced pelvic floor, of course).
    After the hard flaccid went away I had an actual cramping feeling in my perineum that eventually went away as well, I did some external massaging. So, onto the theories:
    1) Due to the strain, blood flow was restricted to the penis because as we all should know, the PF has control on penile blood flow.
    2)When a man is under severe psychological anxiety and worry, this restricts blood flow as well and causes a hard flaccid because again, the restriction of blood flow.
    3) (most likely cause) It was BOTH. The anxiety along with the tense PF cause an EXTREME restriction of blood flow, causing the HF.
    Hopefully this helps explain things better, if you have questions, PM me.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    POSTURE
    Make sure to keep good posture when sitting down and standing. If you notice when you sit up straight, it's much easier to keep a relaxed pelvic floor. When sitting, keep your feet flat on the floor, chair scooted up to the desk and keep your back straight. Tailbone also needs to be close to the back.
    You may want to consider seeing a PT/Chiropractor to make sure that your hips are aligned properly. This can cause PF issues. Review the links below and you will see that there seems to be a correlation between having slouched postures and PF tension. Note that correlation doesn't mean causation however.
    I will bold the posture stuff in this thread brown.


    Another aspect of posture that I want to point out is pelvic tilts, primarily the
    Anterior Pelvic Tilt. There appears to be a positive correlation between anterior pelvic tilt and there is a lot of research on this for me to post info about it here.

    here is a link explaining this: Wait, What? Kegels DON’T Work? | It's All In How You Move. (thanks Helloboy)
    here is another thread also explaining the correlation of bad posture and PF problems: (thanks Epoh)


    Prolonged Sitting is NOT your Friend

    Studies have shown (ok, this is hearsay but it is still important) that it is bad for your health to sit down for more than 30 mins at a time, especially for your pelvic floor and prostate. With sedentary lifestyles these days, postural and pelvic floor issues are on the rise, so it is in my best interest to advise you guys on some healthy habits to combat these issues that may arise. What I am about to discuss will be a pain in the prostate to do routine wise, but it will be very healthy ,especially if you have CPPS.



    The HANS RK-Posture Supersets
    So the idea is that this will incorporate the avoidance of sitting with doing postural work and Reverse Kegels. It's nothing special but just a little recommendation I have come up with with the help of physios.

    1) Set a timer for 30 mins and continue work at your desk
    2) When 30 mins is up, spend about 5 mins (use the timer if you want) to do some posture work, I recommend wall angels and upper back stretches, if you have APT then you can do some stretching for that as well, whatever is best for yourself, but it has to be something to keep the posture good
    3) now, you will sit in a different position this time.
    positions include (you will probably end up doing all of these if you must sit for several hours:
    -
    sitting at the edge of the chair (maybe on a pillow if hard surfaces cause pain
    -sitting with a pillow behind your back
    -kneeling with a cusion of some sort under your knees
    -standing desk
    4) Do RKs (the amount of RKs you do will depend on conditioning, but I recommend doing them sitting if sitting causes tension.. you can end up doing more during the 30 if necessary)
    5) Set timer for 30 mins and rinse and repeat




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Tennis ball massage (external massage)
    There is no correct way to do the tennis ball massage. The only correct way is whatever gives you a good massage. The way I do it is i sit down on carpet, and I put my legs out and keep them slightly bent like I'm sitting in a bathtub. I place the tennis ball under my perineum and use my arms to lift my body over it and move upper body around over the tennis ball. I recommend starting with no more than 60 seconds as to much may be excessive. You should feel an alleviation of your symptoms.
    Another variation is to put your legs up any way you see comfortable (wall happy baby or your just lay on the floor and prop your knees up on something and let your legs dangle) and just role the tennis ball around your perineum.

    Fingers
    You may also simply use your two fingers and just feel around for tenderness and massage. I massage vigorously and can get instant alleviation however I don't recommend you start off like that. (Start off gently, especially if it is shortly after a muscle strain)
    Another good idea is to massage while erect so there is less skin (thanks
    Drjohn)
    These massages are great for BC muscle injury, but can also be done anywhere on the perineum as well, if you have cramping in the muscle like I did.
    NOTE:
    This is for temporary relief only, rest and retraining of the muscles is paramount for a cure.
    Here is a thread for massaging for trigger points in the genitals (Thanks whatsthestory)


    Internal Massage
    For internal massage, you can use a therawand or just your fingers (which I recommend)
    Pretend your rectum is a clock, the prostate is 12 o' clock and the tailbone is 6 o' clock. Avoid these areas. Stick your fingers inside and try to feel where the soreness is, and apply gentle pressure on the area for about 10 seconds max. I have found that "sweet spots" can be anywhere from half an inch to almost 3 inches deep, so don't be afraid to go further inside if need be, the point is to find the spot and apply gentle pressure to it.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Your mental state
    I have added this section in because I think it is important to mention that you need to be relaxed. Without relaxation, you will not achieve an erection. When you are worried and anxious of the state of your penis, your body engages in a flight or fight response and blood is restricted from the penis and put elsewhere in the body, this type of phenomena happens when you are nervous and is part of performance anxiety. Anytime you are nervous, your penis shrivels.
    In your case, your worry tightens your PF, so you are dealing with a tense PF and restriction of bloodflow, and you are incessantly nervous. This creates a tension cycle that prevents people from getting better. Until you relax and calm down your symptoms will persist.
    The other issue is that a lot of stress and anxiety is subconscious, making the sufferer unaware of the stress he is really under, this needs to be addressed as well, that is why I recommend a stress management counselor or a sex therapist, explain to the counselor that your symptoms resemble a tension headache, but it's in your pelvis, this will get them to understand better.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Penis Enlargement and The Pelvic Floor

    This section is going to give advice about doing PE and keeping your pelvic floor healthy, should you decide to do it. I don't know how many of you reading this are ready for PE yet, but I figured it's good to mention these things in case you decide to do it later on or if you've just joined the site and you already have a balanced pelvic floor and are just doing your necessary research on PE before engaging in it. Penis enlargement is safe if done correctly, but correctly is a very vague term in this context so I am going to define what correctly actually means.

    The first thing to understand about PE is that your penis is not the only thing that is prone to injury. Your pelvic floor is too. Although this is uncommon, don't let that discourage you from taking this seriously. The consequences of PF injury are troublesome, and there is a whole thread about it and you are reading it now. I am going to be giving you information here that most male enhancement sites don't tell you so consider it a privilege that you've stumbled upon the PEGym. Although it will take time for this message to get out and it will certainly take time for the medical field to get their heads screwed on tight and actually learn about PF dysfunctions, we will just have to keep the community strong on here. So, enough of my raving and ranting, let's get started.

    When doing your actual PE exercises, it's important to be aware of your pelvic floor. A lot of people tense their PF muscle when touching their penis as mentioned previously. Although this isn't detrimental and in some circumstances it may be normal, it needs to be acknowledged when stretching. A lot of you will start off with a routine such as JP90 which is a really good routine, but there are some instructions in there that I truly believe need to be challenged. What I am referring to is kegeling while stretching. This is very risky in my opinion. The reason this is so is because when you pull on your penis and tighten your PC muscles (kegel) simultaneously, you are putting an extraordinary amount of stress on your BC muscle which lies in front of your PC and behind your genitals. Think of it as a tug of war between your penis and PC muscle, your BC is right in the middle of all this and is being pulled on from both side. I call this the "Tug of War Theory." This may not happen with the light kegels he mentions, but with kegel clenching (long, hard kegels) you will be putting stress on those BC muscles, plus, in the big picture, light kegels aren't necessary and it can be argued that they are potentially excessive. When there is this much tension in the PF from the kegeling while stretching the penis, that BC muscle may give out, if this happens, then you WILL
    be looking at hard flaccid. This can yield Levator ani syndrome, Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome and a host of other psychological problems that will affect your well being. Now, I am not trying to scare you away from PE as I have done it, made gains from it and intend on doing it in the future. It is safe as long as you do your research and take heed of this thread. I am only trying to save you from injuring your pelvic floor which, when doing PE, you already run the risk of penile injury if you are not careful. The the moral of this story is, don't kegel while stretching. The same can be applied to hanging and pumping. With clamping, the rules are a little different. You need to make sure that you keep your pelvic floor relaxed. Since by now you should be aware of the reverse kegel (if not look at the links in the section above). Later on in this passage, I will discuss proper kegel etiquette, explaining when and how they should be done.

    The pelvic floor as we all know, controls blood flow to the penis, which is why people with tense pelvic floors may have some form of ED. So this is why it is important to make sure that it is fully balanced when doing PE. If you have ED, then you have low erection quality or EQ. EQ is the primary indicator of getting good gains. It is the message that is quietly preached on this site. I am attempting to turn up the volume and make it more clear. A lot people go into PE with low EQ, and this can be due to physical anomalies, stress and anxiety, overactive pelvic floors, lack of proper diet and exercise, or desensitization due to porn and masturbation addiction. It should also be noted that excessive masturbation and frivolous ejaculations have been known to hinder gains. This all contributes to the rule that
    one must not have any underlying physical, mental, or emotional anomalies before starting their PE journey.
    So, analyze those things before starting PE. This is because of the impact EQ has on gains. Bad EQ, bad gains, good EQ, good gains. So, where am I going with this? Well I am going to further discuss a way to improve you EQ while keeping a healthy pelvic floor so you can maximize both your penis gains but also your PF gains.
    More info here ==>
    Being Prepared for PE
    If the previous things mentioned are in good order, then you will want to begin a...

    STAMINA TRAINING ROUTINE (for EQ Improvement and lasting longer) Note that I did not write this routine, (Big Al) did and deserves the vast majority of the credit. I am just going more in depth to ensure it is done correctly so you can get the best results without risk of injury.
    Because stamina training helps with EQ, it will help you maximize your gains while simultaneously helping you last longer in bed. This is why stamina training is important to do along with your enlargement exercises and it should always be done regardless if you don't feel like doing the PE exercises that day. It is like leg day, you just can't skip it.
    Stamina training should be done after your enlargement exercises, before the warmdown. If your EQ is really poor, consider only doing stamina training, just make sure to warmup. Your warmups and warmdowns should be done with either a hot washcloth, heating pad, rice sock, or a hot bath/shower. Massage your penis on the warmdowns.
    Start off doing erect kegels, 5 second hold. These will strengthen the PF muscle and allow for more blood to flow in to penis. All kegeling should be done while erect, and you should always reverse kegel afterwards to remind your pelvic floor to relax even though you have just tensed it. You are only kegeling to strengthen and tone the muscles, so you need to tell you pelvic floor that staying relaxed is still the rule. You will do this by incorporating a 30% to 70% kegel to reverse kegel regimen. 30% kegels 70% reverse kegels hiindis etc.
    LJMatey's Push/Pull Concept
    I was PMing with a guy who brought up a very brilliant idea. What you will do is 1 erect kegel, then right after you will do 1 reverse kegel. This will put futher emphasis on the reminders we give our PFs to relax. You wll do this 4 more times, so 5 erect kegels and 5 reverse kegels. It will look like this:
    EK/RK/EK/RK/EK/RK/EK/RK/EK/RK

    Trust me you will only want to start off with 5, erect kegels are very intense and kegeling in general is the most abused form of male enhancement. This is due to several reasons: They are easy and convenient, they engorge the penis increasing its size temporarily, they increase feelings of pleasure, they are habit forming, but most of all, there is very unclear instructions about doing them on the internet. People need to realize that sometimes that lack of clear, detailed information can hurt somebody, it is sheer laziness. If one can't be specific enough to tell someone to simply only kegel outside of their training until they train for MMO (which by that time you will know what you are doing and will have full control of your muscles) then they have no business giving male enhancement advise! But that is what I'm here for.

    You need to add 1 erect kegel per workout as long as everything goes as planned and there's no soreness. Work your way up to 50 and then start over but do towel raises. I don't recommend exceeding 50 towel raises from the start as you can simply increase the length of time you are clenching so instead of 5 second do 10 maybe. The rule of thumb with these is this, less is more. Make sure to do more reverse kegels and hindis to live up to that 30% 70% rule. Hindis should be started off with 5 mins then work your way up to 15 mins. More than that may be excessive and you should work on Iso's Squat (video in the important exercise #2.5 section).

    After doing your kegels and reverse kegels you will do your
    Stop and Starts.
    Stop and starts are a type of edging where you stimulate yourself through lubricated masturbation with a soft grip, a flesh light, or a partner. Note that hand edging (masturbation) will be easier than sex/flesh light. You will want to try to ultimately work up to 20-25 mins. To do this you will stimulate yourself until you reach the PONR, then STOP until the feeling subsides, then your will START back again. This is 1 stop and start. Do 10-15 of these and time yourself to see how long you can go. You should try to atleast add on 30 secs each session so make sure you are keeping a log of your time like every good PE'er does. You goal should be 20-25 mins in 3 stop and starts. Anything more than 20-25 mins is excessive and possibly counter productive. I can't stress this enough, no kegeling while stimulating!
    Make sure that if you are edging on your own you are using fantasy instead of porn, this is training, and we aren't training to watch porn!
    Whether or not you should ejaculate afterwards depends on how much you ejaculating outside of your training. If you are not sexually active you may ejaculate in your training, but if you are sexually active you may want to save your ejaculations until then because over ejaculation hinders gains.
    Finally do your warmdown.

    Hopefully I've covered everything about doing PE while keeping a good healthy PF. PM me if you have any questions and I will do my best to respond promptly. Hopefully if most of you are still further back and not at this point yet, you will get here eventually. As for the people I've just mentioned and the ones who have good PFs and are looking for gains, I wish you the best of luck and as always, happy gains and happy squatting!



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, so in this section I want to emphasize the way to actually cure all of this. Technically, this would be a hard flaccid cure, but most likely the hard flaccid will go away before you end up curing an overactive pelvic floor so this is mostly considered to be the cure for overactive pelvic floor. If you notice, I didn't title this, and that's becasue if I did, everyone will skip down and read this and nothing else. The way you cure this condition is by applying all the info you have previously learned, which is why you have to read everything.

    I am going to keep this a simple as possible, you cut out the bad habits, you maintain focus, you isolate the reverse kegel, stretched your PF muscles, and most importantly you get into a routine. That is what this is all about my brothers. Being in a routine, that is the key. When you change your lifestyle you become focused, and that is required, and I will explain why.
    So where am I going with this? Here's the thing. Pelvic floor physios treat, they don't cure, no bit of therapy will ever cure you, not mental or physical. This is because they help you receive the tools (knowledge for mental and exercises for physical) to cure yourself. The only person that can cure you is you.

    Physiotherapy usually will only help decrease tension, and teach you the exercises, but it won't eliminate it because of one simple fact. The problem exist within. The reason you have/had hard flaccid is because you have transferred your stress and anxiety to your PF instead of a healthy location. That is why the tension is still there. Stress can manifest itself in numerous ways, both consciously and subconsciously. You probably don't even think you are stressed, most people with this don't, their stress is repressed and they are unaware. You have to eliminate it not by eliminating stress, but by detaching your stress from your PF. The way this is done is by again, using everything we have learned, you need to always be thinking of your PF and it's tension. You have to reverse kegel non stop, whenever you can reverse kegel. Driving is a perfect time to do this, but try to remember to do this most of the day. You are reversing a bad habit so you will have to constantly tell your pelvic floor to relax. You must eliminate any mental barriers from standing in your way. I used to be afraid of revere kegeling because deep down I knew that if I was tense then it would just remind me of it and I was too afraid to face it. That's bullshit. Let nothing stand in your way from reverse kegeling, make a game out of it, do whatever, just reverse kegel like your life depends on it. Yoga can also help and squatting is a must. You have to keep the muscles stretched so you can keep killing it with the reverse kegels

    Change your mindset, obsess over the reverse kegels, theoretically speaking, it is the only way to cure this. I kept having tension come and go and this is the conclusion that I drew, and it's how many people feel about this. This is you actually retraining the pelvic floor.

    The other thing you will need to do is relax in other aspects. A lot of people tense their shoulders, neck, jaw, legs, throat, pretty much any body part. You just have to constantly try to relax, create a habit that you will relax, get in that mindset, get in the routine. Learn some meditative and relaxation techniques.
    Never give up, you are fighting for your well being, your comfortability so your ass doesn't hurt when sitting anymore, so your PF isn't sore after sex. Even when things are gone (my symptoms come and go) keep doing it because the stress could come back. Keep going until it doesn't. Hopefully I have motivated you to endeavor on this, but do it after you have learned to isolate your reverse kegels.


    Another word of advice is to eliminate your stressors in your life, or at the least, learn how to manage stress. This is the only alternative to the above advice as I have come to learn that it is the easiest way. It will be very difficult to give examples on how to do this so you will need to do it on your own. One I can think of right off the bat is if you have emotinal issues, like you have trouble handling situations and get distressed easily, then work on things like that. You will be more mature mentally and I truly believe that this example is very common in people with hard flaccid, whether they realize it or not.
    Acquiring self awareness is paramount in this, do it. It is also one of the most important qualities one can possess.

    MY Final Take on hard flaccid.
    11/3/2017
    There is also another etiology behind hard flaccid, and that is the mental component. This is just merely a theory that starkly compliments my situation and I am truly confident that it will compliment yours too. There is more info in this thread==>

    Hard flaccid and PF Dysfunction-mental or physical

    Here it goes: When you get erect you have to be aroused or have some sort of sexual desire, but when you have hard flaccid, your sexual desire is warped into some sort of fear, and part of this is the worry of having hard flaccid and for whatever reason this has been ingrained into the back of your mind. Every time you try to get erect, your mind has been trained to think about the hard flaccid and whether it will come up or not. This in and of itself is an erection killer. The way to recovery is to either forget about it or acquire self awareness to dig deep and figure out what and why you are so afraid, this is why sex therapists are good and why they are referred when people have this issue or pelvic pain, as pelvic pain also a similar etiology.
    I hope all of you are able to make a full recovery. I wish you well and as always... Happy squatting!

    Mindfulness

    One relaxation technique to use is very similar to meditation. It's called mindfulness because it used the mental aspect of meditation to relax the brain. Doctors examined individuals who meditated and discovered what the meditators were doing and narrowed it down to a couple simple steps.
    Here's what to do:
    Sit or lay down, set a timer on your phone for 5 mins. Close your eyes and do belly breath combos. Make sure your exhales are longer than your inhales!! Here is the key, only focus on your breathing and nothing else. Your brain will fight you and start throwing in a bunch of different ideas and things to distract you, don't feed in to it. It will be difficult at first but do your best to stay focused on only your breathing. Like everything, it takes practice, you don't learn how to kickflip the first time you ride a skateboard, give it time and consistency.
    Doing this will clear your mind and relax you sometime afterward. Doctors did brain scans on individuals who did this and there were noticeable differences in the brains of the "mindfulnessers" and the control group after a few weeks. Everyone try this.
    Another alternative is to focus on relaxing every part of your body when doing this, scanning from your toes up to your head and repeat. This is great to do before bed as it actually is possible to tense while asleep.

    Other techniques:
    Nose breathing, peripheral vision training(soft eyes)
    Attentive training Technique from Metacognitive Therapy (google this)
    https://soundcloud.com/jono-roberts/...y-adrian-wells







    Day one:
    I was evaluated and discussed all of my symptoms including the hard flaccid and

    after evaluating me she believes the muscles are over active.
    Today we started by doing some breathing exercises for relaxation. (belly breath combos) --{breathing reverse kegel}
    She had me lay on my back with my hand over my belly, and told me to breath in through the nose like using my diaphragm, and then breath out through my mouth. While doing this, time the belly breath with the reverse kegel. So breath in through your nose, blow up your belly like a balloon, and your PF will expand. Finally, just exhale through your mouth. She said to focus on using my lower abdomen to breath instead of my chest. She said do this for 5 mins everyday.
    So basically, the belly breath combo is when you time your r
    everse kegels to your breathing. It is like training wheels for your reverse kegels.

    REMEMBER: You will do belly breath combos while squatting,yoga, and stretching, this is why they are important!
    You will also do these throughout the day

    The theory behind this is that you are using the belly breaths to "tell" your PF to relax while you are putting your body in different positions. This will cause your PF to become retrained in a variety of aspects since PF dysfunction is a variety of bad habits.

    This is also called "diaphragmatic breathing",it is the default way humans breath. if you are a human, you can do belly breath combos.

    Another thing to remember is that you are never "forcing" anything, you aren't trying to pass a stool while constipated, you are relaxing the muscles. Another way to look at this is to "paralyze"(keep this concept on
    your mind) your pelvic floor muscles first, then begin the belly breathing. If done enough, your belly will eventually cause entire PF to relax in conjunction with the breathing, yielding a normally tonic PF.

    Here is a thread I created on how to do the breathing reverse kegel better:
    Belly Breaths vs. Front/Back R/Ks

    Information on Kegels/Reverse kegels:

    Different Kegel Exercises (only read "Reverse kegels/root lock" and the bottem paragraph)


    Important Exercise #1
    Next, she had me do a knees-to-chest stretch while breathing. 20 sec holds, 3 sets. 2 times per day
    Another good stretch is the single knee to chest stretch. Lay on your back and pull one leg back so your knee is to your chest (same concept but just one leg instead of both)-(thanks Drjohn)


    You can also pull your knees inward diagonally to get a glute stretch.
    These are good for stretching the PC muscles

    Finally, she discussed proper posture for toilet. Slightly lean forward with back relatively straight, not slouched. Put hand on belly to make sure I'm not straining, also do 5-10 "belly breaths" before straining.

    Last edited by HansTwilight; 04-30-2021, 03:24 PM.
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  • #2
    I have often recommended physio .
    Some of the exercises we do here are physio like in nature .
    The belly breaths seem designed to relax the pelvic floor.
    It will be interesting to see how she progresses In her therapy.
    Last edited by Pegasus; 03-25-2016, 07:27 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BigBob223 View Post
      Despite my hard flaccid being cured I was still suffering from CPPS or at least something of similar nature. My urologist said it was most likely a pelvic floor injury due to the excessive amount of kegeling I had been doing from years of masturbation and intentional kegeling. My main problems now involve straining with bowels and pain in the genitals. If you would like to get the details regarding my initial injury then look through my threads as I'm not going to discuss it here.

      I decided to make this thread because there are still some people suffering from HF and there is a minuscule amount of phys therapy threads on this forum. I will try to update as much as possible and discuss what actions have been taken. That being said, please take this information as is, and do not start filling this thread with pessimism and ridiculous speculation, it will not be tolerated and I will cease posting. This is for informational purposes only and what you decide to do with this information is up to you and you alone. Note that I do NOT condone attempting anything read on the internet without consulting a specialist, as this information applies to me and may not apply to you. If you feel like attempting any of the content posted thinking it may help, know that I am NOT responsible for the outcome.

      Feel free to ask me any questions regarding therapy, I will do my best to answer.


      Day one:
      I was evaluated and discussed all of my symptoms including the hard flaccid and after evaluating me she believes the muscles are over active.
      Today we started by doing some breathing exercises for relaxation. (belly breaths)
      She had me lay on my back with my hand over my belly, and told me to breath in through the nose like using my diaphram, and then breath out through my mouth. She said to focus on using my lower abdomen to breath instead of my chest. She said do this for 5 mins everyday.

      Next, she had me do a knees-to-chest stretch while breathing. 20 sec holds, 3 sets. 2 sets per day

      Finally, she discussed proper posture for toilet. Slightly lean forward with back relatively straight, not slouched. Put hand on belly to make sure I'm not straining, also do 5-10 "belly breaths" before straining.
      Thank you for sharing!

      When I poop, I normally stand on the toilet seat and squat (not kidding). My wifey has taken up the same practice too.

      A possible investment in the future is the Squatty Potty which can help too.
      How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices! ~ Song of Solomon 4:10

      For things to change, you have to change.” - Jim Rohn, The Art of Exceptional Living

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      • #4
        What is knee to chest stretch? Is it just bringing youe knee to your chest while lying down? Thanks

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        • #5
          Mhh I don't think that I suffer from HF but I do feel that my pelvic floor is really tense. What is CPPL? And by straining do you mean Rk's as hard as possible to try and get the poop out?

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          • #6
            https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...ic-physio.html

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rxaxa View Post
              What is knee to chest stretch? Is it just bringing youe knee to your chest while lying down? Thanks
              Yes, put your hands behind you knees and pull into your chest.
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              • #8
                Day 2:
                Warmup:
                Started off doing knees to chest stretch, 3 sets of 20 seconds. She then had melay on my back and do breathing, When breathing in I would point my feet outward, then inward whilst breathing out. (belly breath combos) I then laid on my stomach with forearms flat on the bench and curved my back upwards to stretch (cobra pose).

                With this post, I find it's best to keep the stomach on ground and only curve my upper chest. Notice the emphasis on forearms flat on the bench.

                Then I had to stand on these wooden round circles on the floor and turn my feet outward then inward 20 times. She also had me do a (cat-camel pose) and then had me sit down with back straight, and only using my hips, "dip" down towards the pubic bone and back up. (pelvic tilts). Do these on a chair/bench first, then move to an exercise ball as you get better with them.

                Afterwards we did some biofeedback, where she put these sticky things on my rectum which was connected to a machine that could register the tension/relaxation. I was laying down with something to rest my legs on. She told me to do a half kegel, then to completely relax (basically do a back reverse kegel). After that she told me to try doing it sitting down. She described the pelvic floor as a diamond, with the front and the back divided up into two triangles. The sit bones are the sided of the triangle and the tailbone is the point of the triangle. She said to focus on "widening" the triangle.

                The final thing she showed me was another toilet exercise. Before straining, place hands at the side of the knees, press legs up and out and count to 3, making sure that my hands are actually still holding my legs in place. Repeat 3 times before straining.
                Implementation of belly breath combos with poses:
                cobra pose: since you are not moving in this pose, just breath as you please.
                cat camel: go to cat position, breath in. Breath out as you move into camel position. Lots of focus is required for this pose, especially cat position. Really make sure your getting that rk in
                pelvic tilt: breath in as your hips drop, breath out as you return to starting position.
                Last edited by HansTwilight; 01-28-2017, 01:21 PM.
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                • #9
                  So rk and yoga stretches. She possibly feels there is muscle imbalance in your hip/glute.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                    So rk and yoga stretches. She possibly feels there is muscle imbalance in your hip/glute.
                    Interesting. What makes you say that?



                    Day 3:
                    Did my regular warmup stretches, then went into a room where another lady with a student was working on bladder training. She was pressing around my bladder asking where the pain was (left side of lower abdominals). She then pressed around above the pubic bone and I told her I immediately felt the urge to urinate and she said that wasn't supposed to happen. She placed these massage-like things that were connected to a machine on the area along with heat for 10 minutes to relax those muscles. Afterwards she put a big piece of bandage-like tape over the region that hurt. She may have said something about the bladder being out of alignment if I'm not mistaken. (May have to get back to you on that one). She told me that some people are naturally more prone to pelvic floor tension, and that those types of individuals should not be kegeling. It was due to something that happened when they going through a growth spurt. And that was the reason why I had the similar pain in my epididymis when I was younger. The tape thing is supposed to come off Thurs.
                    She also said NOT to do any abdominal work like crunches.
                    This primarily applies to when you are experiencing symptoms. Once the tension has been relieved, you may add light ab exercises such as planks (do belly breath combos with these) while you continue your treatment to maintain.
                    Last edited by HansTwilight; 01-17-2017, 05:52 PM.
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                    • #11
                      Most of the therapy you describe is reverse kegel and yoga poses even if they do not call them such. The feet in/out sounds like an activation exercise for the hip /glute .
                      She is onto the concept that kegels can cause tension; of course there can be numerous reasons besides the growth spurt thing btw.
                      All in all she is using similar methodology as is used onsite.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                        Most of the therapy you describe is reverse kegel and yoga poses even if they do not call them such. The feet in/out sounds like an activation exercise for the hip /glute .
                        She is onto the concept that kegels can cause tension; of course there can be numerous reasons besides the growth spurt thing btw.
                        All in all she is using similar methodology as is used onsite.
                        I know that the majority of what they do is similar to whats on this site, it's just a personal preference of mine to do things with professionals so I know I am doing it correctly.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BigBob223 View Post
                          I know that the majority of what they do is similar to whats on this site, it's just a personal preference of mine to do things with professionals so I know I am doing it correctly.
                          Oh yes it is the ideal solution . You have someone on the spot who can actually see and test for what is happening . In addition the physio training can often spot causal factors like misaligned pelvis etc . The personal trainer aspect also has value .

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                          • #14
                            Sorry about not updating for awhile. Anyways things have been pretty stasis with the therapy, I've been doing some more yoga poses such as bird dogs. They've added open book stretch, wall angels, and figure 4 stretch (google these) for the pain around the tailbone and above glutes, they had me put my feet in an elastic band and I walked sideways with knees bent, also they were working on posture by having me do back work with the bands, similar to rows but i had to keep my shoulders relaxed. They also had me do hamstring stretches for pain in the lower glutes. She taught me a bladder training exercise where when I have the urge to urinate, do 5-6 quick kegels to make the urge go away temporarily. Also try to distract myself from feeling the urge. She had me write down how often I urinated, which was 9 times in one day, however, i didn't sleep the night before so I urinated at 3 am which could have changed things.

                            She also instructed me to take 30 minute breaks when sitting for long periods of time, get up, walk around and do deep squats and belly breaths.
                            Also, I want to emphasize that when you sit, sit up straight with good posture, this will help align your pelvic floor so doing belly breath combos will be easier.
                            Today then also had me do (regular squats along with deep squats). A couple other things added along the way were a couple exercises where they would put a half circle shaped object (round end against my back) and i would sit up and hug myself, then turn left and right without moving the object. I also had to do this with the object horizontal and move my back against the back rest and back to initial position. You may also use a rolled up towel.
                            (I know this may be hard to picture :/) They also gave me instructions on colon massaging to help with straining.
                            Important Exercise #2

                            Hind
                            i vs Hindu
                            Hindi squats aka garland pose are the best alternative. Note that there is a difference between a hind
                            i squat and a hindu squat. The hindi is done with the feet flat and the hindu is done on the ball of your foot (heels up). We are working on hindis.


                            Make sure feet are flat, and your bottom is as close to the ground as you can get it. Sit in this squatted position and do belly breath combos in this pose. (Thanks Drjohn)


                            Squatting helps with stretching the tight muscles.

                            Start off with a 3-5 min squat and try to eventually work your way up to 15 minutes. I believe anything beyond that is excessive.
                            I recommend doing the squatting atleast once a day. You can try to adjust the length of the squat versus the number times a day. So for example, 2 sets of 10 mins may benefit you more than 3 sets of 5 mins.


                            If you feel any soreness and you are sure you are doing these correctly, then you need to back off and lower the amount of time you spent squatting. A lot of people go into this thinking that if they do a lot it will make the problem go away quicker.
                            We don't want soreness, this means you overstretched the muscle and it wil need rest. If you continue to overstretch it, then you risk falling behind on your gains. No soreness!


                            More info on squatting:

                            If you can't do the hindi, do a deep squat for the time being but condition yourself to eventually do a hindi. General muscle tightness is common in men with an overactive PF so if you struggle to get the hindi squat and find deep squats easier, i suggest you make an attempt "condition" yourself for them. You will probably have tightness in your hamstrings, inner thighs, hip flexors, and heel cords. Work on stretching these until you can get into proper hindi stance then work on balance.

                            If you need to hold onto something to stay balanced, I reccomend holding onto something in front of you. I wrap a tight, thick band around a pole and put myself in the loop and that holds me up better. Get creative but make sure you are comfortable.

                            Edit: After much experience, I can confidently say that the hindi is unnecessary (unless you want to do yoga regularly/work on flexibility) in my personal opinion, a regular deep squat should suffice.

                            Butterfly pose
                            advanced version

                            thanks MarcusHa


                            heel cord stretches


                            My sessions typically don't last as long and now I talk to the therapist about how my symptoms are doing and if I'm experiencing pain she checks it and gives me advice. I'm going through another "flare-up" so my pelvic pain and genital pain is worse than usual along with the frequent urges to pee. We did do a seconds biofeedback session however.

                            I feel pretty good about the therapy and I'm down to 2x a weeks compared to 3. The flare-ups are never as bad as the one prior but this particular flare up is significantly better that the other ones, less tension and pain. I know they're flare ups based off of the anxiety and depressive episodes because the phys symptoms go hand-in-hand with the psycho symptoms.

                            I feel with constant bladder training, implementing trigger point massaging with a tennis ball, and repetitive stretching and reverse kegeling, things will get better later in life. I can definitely see improvements. Apparently i have 20 sessions left before insurance runs out so i think I'm fine. Unfortunately, I have been experiencing ED (weak erections 70%), little morning wood, low libido, and PE and also some penis pain. What usually happens is the erection is very weak (barely penetrable) and by the time it is sufficiently hard I have to ejac.

                            Low EQ is common when doing this therapy, don't worry.


                            Sincere apologies for the length but it has been 2 weeks.
                            Last edited by HansTwilight; 07-29-2020, 12:08 PM.
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                            • #15
                              Ok sounds like you have significant back/pelvic and pysc issues which play into your pelvic floor problems.
                              Sounds like you are making progress

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