Hillary's America...

**CUSP82** · 10-28-2016

So have a lot of Christians been blowing people up and cutting off heads lately?

**Paracletus** · 10-28-2016

Originally Posted by CUSP82

So have a lot of Christians been blowing people up and cutting off heads lately?

As a Christian do you feel morally responsible or guilty for the Crusades, the destruction of the old Germanic/Viking cultures of Scandinavia and other parts of Europe OR persecution of the Jews OR the colonizing non Christian regions and forcing conversions and bondage? Do you feel responsible for the actions of Warren Jeffs and other fundamentalist Christian psychos?

You are a reasonable man and fully know that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to the evils of extreme Wahabism and other fundamentalist sects. The majority of American Muslims have successfully assimilated into American culture, many have even died protecting it in a meaningless war.

I'm sure you're thinking I'm some naive liberal. I am a third culture kid, I am a non Muslim Canadian that was born and grew up all over the Middle East so I am fully aware of the ugly side of Islam. In fact I know of two guys that even graduated from my private American school in Kuwait that joined some extremist group. The gap in livelihood between the rich and poor is insane in the Gulf. Radical Islam is an all too easy outlet for the poor and and uneducated of that region who are convinced that the elite and the West are holding each other by the balls for the sake of money- costing the poor all while globalism and forced Americanization of the region is a sheer contradiction of their conservative beliefs. You see 9/11, they see 112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths (2013) in Iraq. It will go on and on.

Instead of fearing Muslims, both candidates should address the question of why many of the elites (that also fund campaigns in the US, have American investments and real estate...some are even FRIENDS with American politicians!) in the Gulf states continue to fund and support these groups and why are regular moderate Muslims being held accountable for this?Why isn't Saudi Arabia being held accountable for ANYTHING? Why are there so many Tunisian and Chechen fighters in ISIL's ranks. What the hell is going on with Russia and Iran?

**Paracletus** · 10-28-2016

When I was in highschool I actually had the chance to visit the Kuwaiti-Iraqi border with my father. It was the start of the second Gulf War and do you know what I saw? A farmer who lived on the outskirts of Al Basrah. These farmers lived in god damn literal mud huts, far away from much influence of the former Iraqi government which was so disorganized and in disarray prior to the war. He had trekked to the border because the first wave of airstrikes destroyed his home and killed his wife and daughter. All he had was his son, and is it so hard to believe that little boy was going to grow up with anti American sentiments. That is just ONE case I saw with my own eyes, how many children have grown up since losing their families for no reason and have only the west to blame?

Nearby Al Basrah is an old Iraqi army outpost (infact my father saw this first hand, because of his work) the first few Iraqi soldiers that were surrendering to the incoming wave of American troops, half of them didn't even have shoes or full uniforms. They were terrified but being barked at, slapped around and restrained- these men did not fire a single shot. That was the enemy?

**Marlon LGHanger** · 10-28-2016

Some people need a history lesson! Especially when it comes to the Crusades! Christians saved Europe from a murderous onslaught by Mohammad and his Muslim band of merry men.
There might be a few crazy people today that claim to be Christian that do unlawful things, even the KKK says that it's a Christian organization, only every single main stream Christian organization openly denounces and condemns the KKK. Same with that crazy guy down in Florida who goes around saying God hates homosexuals. He has been denounced and even peacefully picketed by true Christian believers. FYI - Warren Jeffs is not a Christian. He is a Mormon, and Mormanism is not considered to be a Biblical Christian doctrine. They have their own set of books that contradict Biblical doctrine.... in essence Mormanism is a cult. That said I have many Morman friends who are very fine people, they just haven't been properly taught.

The difference with Islam is that the vast majority of followers have no problem with Jihad and Sharia Law. In fact when Muslims in America are polled the vast majority want Sharia Law. Besides all that, what Muslim organization have you seen openly denouncing the violent acts of it's followers? I hear crickets....

**Paracletus** · 10-28-2016

Nice statistic. I like how you left out the next line from the source you quote that same statistic.

When that question was put to the broader U.S. population, the overwhelming majority held that shariah should not displace the U.S. Constitution (86% to 2%).

Have you ever been to the Middle East? The majority do NOT want to partake in Jihad. The majority of the likes in Kuwait,UAE, Jordan, Qatar and so on have condemned the violent actions of extremist Muslims because believe it or not- the majority of Muslims (and just like everybody else) have the decency of basic HUMANIST values* while ALSO being actively under threat of attack by these groups. ISIL has declared war on the governments AND moderate muslims for aligning with the west. Just recently ISIL took responsibility for an attack on a mosque in Kuwait, a *gasp* muslim country.

Like how you just differentiated the difference between Mormonism and Christianity, what makes ISIL different is their followers have openly accepted al Baghdadi as the Caliph and successor to Mohammed. The majority, have not. Which then, does not make it an orthodox form of Islam.

*But you're only going to bring up some backwards ass laws like stoning, castration, and other ugly facets of Shariah law. These countries are messed up in that respect, the laws are enforced by a few to oppress the many. You cannot do the injustice of speaking on the behalf of ALL Muslims saying that they all agree and want the strictest/harshest form of Shariah. Conservative Islam has a very ugly face, but you cannot forsake the sizable amount of moderate Muslims.

**Tamora** · 10-28-2016

Very interesting debate!

**CUSP82** · 10-28-2016

No I don't not really care what happened 500 years ago. I do not care that the Romans slaughtered many. I do not care that the Islamic Moors slaughtered many. I do not care how many the Viking slaughtered either because they weren't the nicest guys either.
Not caring cannot be confused with not learning.
I do not fear Muslims, nor do I fear any religion. I fear for my fellow countrymen allowing more evil people in; we already have enough. Do you allow someone to come into your home that you have no idea who they are? No you don't.

I find it hard to allow people that I have no information on whatsoever to be allowed to come and live in my country until I know who they are. What is wrong with that? You see this county is my home. It is not bigoted to insist that I know who's coming in my home. There is no discrimination either. I want a closed southern border; does that mean I am anti immigrant? To those with narrow minds yes; to me no. Let me know who you are, come in legally and I and many others will welcome you.
Canada has allowed many Syrian refugees in; good for you guys. Why does my country have to? Because you guys did it?

Now why aren't the other Arab nations taking these people in? You tell me. They must have their reasons. Oh but you want the U.S. to force them in someway right? Cut off their aid or something. Isn't that called meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation? So we have the right to give Saudia Arabia a hard time for not taking in refugees?

My country has fed more, protected more, cured more, sheltered more, educated more, rescued more than all the nations on this earth combined. We have the right to say no every once in a while.

**Paracletus** · 10-28-2016

I only addressed your reply in how you perceived the whole Trump banning Muslims bit. My analogy about the past i.e Crusades and whatnot might have been a poor attempt in me really asking- are you going to hold ALL Muslims- the ones who immigrate lawfully included and not just the refugees- accountable for the horrible actions of extremist groups

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say anything about the U.S having to take in more refugees and wasnt even remotely trying to change your mind about that. I was addressing how you said he never spoke of banning Muslims.

And yes, the U.S should pursue and hold Saudi Arabia accountable for ALL the BS they've been up to.

**CUSP82** · 10-28-2016

No one is holding legal Muslims guilty of anything nor is anyone saying that a Muslim that wants to come here is a bad guy. It would just be nice to know who they are.