Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

**Johnny D** · 01-18-2021

Originally Posted by Fizzby2233

It depends on your information source. I do not get my information from YouTube or Wikipedia and I don't get my news from Facebook or Fox. Data is data and information is what is created from the data. You can use data or misuse data to create legitimate information or pseudo or misinformation.
When it comes to COVID some people are laying out information backed by data from legitimate sources without political spin and then there are those that are invested in contradicting the antidotal and scientific evidence that masks work. If a person wants to argue that there is no real evidence that mask wearing works, I would posit that there is no "real" evidence or data the PE works. There is a body of antidotal evidence that it works. It strains credulity to say out of one side of a persons mouth that there is no evidence that masks work and then be on a site that is almost completely comprised of shared experience of what works removed from any large data source or scientific study.
COVID is different than most things that lend themselves to point counter point or discussion. Like do we really need air to breath. I am not getting into a debate about that, even though I am sure there is some Zealot out there convinced we don't need air. Again, there is no down side to following precautions like mask wearing and social distancing (there is a horrible economic and psychological downside to lockdowns even when necessary). There is a pandemic, many countries have handled it better than us due to cultural and societal norms, the amount of death at the end of this journey will be a number so astounding it will take anyone's breath away and so COVID is a dead horse at this point. People can keep beating it but the reality is "writ large" already. A person's political views or philosophies not withstand history will award Science and Medicine the Oscar and make short shrift of those that were part of the problem not the solution.

That's all well said. However, you seem to be taking the position that the goal is to eradicate the virus from the population at all costs. As though, if mandating masks has even the smallest effect, do it. If closing all restaurants might keep one person from spreading the virus, do it. The people on that side of the argument have essentially closed the debate stage at a time when debate is essential. You gloss over so easily, "there is a horrible economic and psychological downside to lockdowns even when necessary" as though lockdowns are inarguable without being willing to engage in the "when necessary" part of your statement. When lockdowns will do more positive than negative, you can argue that they *might* be necessary. The Stanford study authors put it in perspective: "we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures. The data cannot fully exclude the possibility of some benefits. However, even if they exist, these benefits may not match the numerous harms of these aggressive measures." Do you consider Stanford a legitimate source or are they invested in contradicting "they antidotal (sic) and scientific evidence"?

**Fizzby2233** · 01-18-2021

Economic effects can be reversed death can not. When the town of Paradise California burn down the thought was not save the business and merchandise first. It was save the people first so they can rebuild. This is a lesson from history not me. After the 1918 pandemic after the great wars after all manner of catastrophes it is always life first then rebuild. COVID is a disease yes but it is a world event catastrophe which is no where near being done with us. Hard desicions are made in historic times that can be made for the good and have horrible effects on some. But what history show is that as long as people survive they will rebuild and repair the damage to their economies. Paradise has been busily rebuilding. If they had all died in that desperate fire trying to save their businesses there would be no one to rebuild. How did it get so late so soon.-Dr. Suess

**Fizzby2233** · 01-18-2021

The study from Stanford does have merit and has to be seen and weighed with other credible study at which point it is fair to say that a person is coming from a point of view that does have foundation. There is so much antedotal evidence coming out of countries that have effectively used lock downs that I believe this question will be examined for years once we are no longer in the heat of war at the center of the storm. Tip of the hat to you Johnny. Lockdowns have been the most complicated intrusive and harsh of all measures. Time and history will make things clearer and we will see in the rearview mirror what we did right and wrong in this pandemic. Thanks for suggesting the Stanford study it does hit all the criteria of legitimacy. Whether it is the final word...science is always evolving and course correcting.

**Johnny D** · 01-18-2021

"Economics can be reversed" is lacking in compassion for the guy who just lost the business he spent his life building and will never get back. The costs are more than the economy, too. Deaths from drug use and suicide are on the rise.

But we make decisions all the time with regard to preventing death vs the cost to do so. We have to - the notion of preventing death at all costs would be absurd. The obvious one right now is our response to influenza every flu season. We're ok with some number of people dying - there have been some 80k in the US alone in some years - and don't lockdown or force other measures to prevent their deaths. We do this because the cost to do so would be too high. So we know that we weigh the cost against the benefit all the time yet that argument is a non-starter to so many people right now. Why is that debate being silenced?

The Glenn Greenwald interview wasn't about his credentials with regard to Covid. I assume from your response that you didn't listen to it. He's a highly credible journalist - and, yes, an attorney who fights for civil liberties, especially 1st amendment - who is saying what I said above. That the debate is being silenced at a time when it's needed the most. Rather than having this discussion and not waiting until we have the rear view mirror (and the damage has been done), big-tech and media are silencing it.

**Fizzby2233** · 01-18-2021

Originally Posted by Johnny D

"Economics can be reversed" is lacking in compassion for the guy who just lost the business he spent his life building and will never get back. The costs are more than the economy, too. Deaths from drug use and suicide are on the rise.

But we make decisions all the time with regard to preventing death vs the cost to do so. We have to - the notion of preventing death at all costs would be absurd. The obvious one right now is our response to influenza every flu season. We're ok with some number of people dying - there have been some 80k in the US alone in some years - and don't lockdown or force other measures to prevent their deaths. We do this because the cost to do so would be too high. So we know that we weigh the cost against the benefit all the time yet that argument is a non-starter to so many people right now. Why is that debate being silenced?

The Glenn Greenwald interview wasn't about his credentials with regard to Covid. I assume from your response that you didn't listen to it. He's a highly credible journalist - and, yes, an attorney who fights for civil liberties, especially 1st amendment - who is saying what I said above. That the debate is being silenced at a time when it's needed the most. Rather than having this discussion and not waiting until we have the rear view mirror (and the damage has been done), big-tech and media are silencing it.

Glenn Greenwald quit the Guardian in disgrace and they issued a statement that anyone who did not agree with him was considered to be censoring him as he was always right. I can certainly see his appeal to some who believe they are always right. I have shared information from reputable sources regarding COVID. If Coke comes out with a study saying sugar is harmless and should be part of everyone's diet I will consider the source. When a contrarian like Greenwald who has an agenda comes out medical advice couched in first amendment rights, correct I will not listen. The debate he think is being silenced is no debate. We have a pandemic and we know certain things about COVID and we are learning more. He is not looking for debate. There is no debate. I get my medical information on COVID from the science and medical community not lawyers who sew dissension and peddle doubt. I am content to follow the guidance of CDC Dr Fauci and the COVID Team put together by our new president comprised of reliable experts. No doubt the disgraced pulitzer prize guy will have lots to complain about regarding the new COVID team as I am sure there will be some missteps but I trust there will be more good than bad.

**CUSP82** · 01-18-2021

And Bidens plan to attack covid is what exactly?

**Fizzby2233** · 01-18-2021

Biden has had several press conferences to outline some of the plan https://joebiden.com/covid-plan/ It is refreshing to see the candor of the new team to discuss that this is going to get worse before it gets better and that they are not "down playing" it. I don't expect 47 percent Americans to greet this with applause, I understand that. I am happy that roughly 52 percent will. That is progress. I didn't write the plan so if people have issues with it probably best to send those to https://joebiden.com/covid-plan/. I am just sharing it because you asked. Cheers.

**Party** · 01-18-2021

Well. I for one am very happy Biden will reduce restrictions on illegal immigrants, that Trump initiated. There are 100,000 Guatamalins On their way up. Of course I’m sure they’ve had their shots. Biden wouldn’t let them in otherwise. If not? I’m sure they’ll all be wearing masks. I mean Biden wouldn’t put the health of the nation ahead of political gain? Course not. Let’s all welcome these Covid free , masked up, illegal immigrants, and future Democract voters.

**Fizzby2233** · 01-18-2021

Originally Posted by Party

Well. I for one am very happy Biden will reduce restrictions on illegal immigrants, that Trump initiated. There are 100,000 Guatamalins On their way up. Of course I’m sure they’ve had their shots. Biden wouldn’t let them in otherwise. If not? I’m sure they’ll all be wearing masks. I mean Biden wouldn’t put the health of the nation ahead of political gain? Course not. Let’s all welcome these Covid free , masked up, illegal immigrants, and future Democract voters.

Very helpful. Thanks for your remark. All the best to you and your family. Cheers.