If the lifestyles study was published...

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

how come every single source I find online says it wasn't. Can we find one person who knows where the lifestyles study was published?

[Steve23 Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Steve23]

You really need to get over this study stuff, who cares what the averages are. Who cares what people think the averages are, is saying the average is lower or higher going to change your penis size or the way someone looks at your penis? No.

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

I do.

[djthiago1 Member Find all posts View Profile Close djthiago1]

Sad.

[JizzInMyPants Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JizzInMyPants]

So if a woman says "you have a small penis" are you going to then break out the charts to prove her wrong? Focus your time on the exercises and then you won't need them.

[ThomasJohnThomas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThomasJohnThomas]

Medical journals?...

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

But it wasn't. All anyone can come up with is that link in your sig, which is nothing short of a guy who copied the words exactly from Ansell's press release on the lifestyles survey. Yet somehow its refered to as a medically published study by some on here, but not one person on the planet can find it published anywhere, and any secondary source reffers to it as unpublished.

[ThomasJohnThomas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThomasJohnThomas]

send Lifestyle an e-mail then...

[DemOne Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DemOne]

This again? Listen, you're never going to get your way, so why keep trying to argue about this?

The medical community doesn't use terms like bone pressed erect length for reasons that I've described to you in multiple private messages. Just because they use different, and actual medical, terminology doesn't mean that what they did is different than what we do. Remember, you're not pressing against bone when you measure BPEL, BPFL, or BPSFL /BPFSL. We should probably start using medical terms on that, but then there's the issue of trying to describe to people who don't understand anatomy how to measure properly. It's easier to just use simple, yet inaccurate, terms to explain what a measurement is and how to do it.

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

My point is, you keep saying that what's on mr. average's website indicates that its bone pressed when he says

"Measuring of length was from the point at the base of the erect penis where the top of the penile shaft meets the pubic area to the tip of the glans ("head")."


You keep saying that this is "medical terminology that studies use because they aren't speaking to the PE community". And "they don't use the term bone because your not measuring against a bone". I've read the full text on EVERY single penis study I could find. Maybe I have too much time on my hands, yes, but point being, almost every single one was done bone pressed, and almost every single one used the terminology "against the pelvic bone." Wessels measured NBPEL, and then measured the fat pad separate (and I quote) by "pressing into the pubic bone".

I sent lifestyles an e-mail, and they sent me everything that they had on the subject. They sent me the entire press release, which is intended for the public. That is the exact wording that is on the Mr. Averages site, as he copy pasted it from that exact press release.

Demone, unless their e-mail said something other than what is said on Mr. Average’s site, than I don’t know what you are talking about. If they truly responded to you in an e-mail, and said something about pressing in the fat pad, or something other than what is said on Mr. Averages website, then fine.

But acting as if what is said on Mr. Average’s website is “medical speak” for bone pressed is just plain false. Like I said, I’ve read almost all the full text studies, and every single one says bone. If it doesn’t measure BPEL, it says something along the lines of “we measured at the pubo-penile skin junction”. Very clear, very spelled out. Not “The point in which the penis meets the pubic area”. That’s not medical speak for anything.

Lastly, you said you’ve seen the study’s published in journals in Australia, Britain, and the U.S., why does every single website on the planet that I can find refer to it as unpublished. Why does there own website not link to the study? I’ve searched far and wide on the internet, which generally is pretty damn easy to find things, and found nothing. I’ve gone thru the Australian Journal of urology, and the United States journal of Urology.

Again, not accusing you of lying, not accusing you of making it up. But if your have seen a published study, you are the only person I can find on any forum, any website, and legitimate publishing that refers to the lifestyles study as published.

The entire rest of the internet world knows the lifestyles measurement method from that one little “where the top of the shaft meets the pubic area” blurb from their press release, which is the same one that’s on the Mr. Average website.

If that one sentence is what your basing your assumption that it is Bone Pressed off of, and they never used terms like “Pressed the fat pad” or anything other than that one quote in the e-mail they sent you, than you are just as clueless as to whether it was bone pressed or not as we are.

In that e-mail, did they go into depth about the measurement methodology, or did they say that exact same quote that is so often repeated?

If you’ve seen the studies published in journals, where the hell are they? How come you ‘ve never linked to them? You’ve gotten access to something that the entire online world has absolutely no knowledge of, I’d be pretty quick to tell people.

I’m on your side man, I just hope that your e-mail said more details other than what is said on mr. average and their press release. Because that is meaningless, and sounds way more like NBP than BPEL. That isn’t medical speak for Bone Pressed, it isn’t medical speak for non bone pressed, I’ve seen all the other studies done and they all consistently use the same terminology.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

I don't know how relevant this is, as all the major studies have similar answers. Yes the lifestyles was a little shorter than some others and if you wish in your mind to add a fraction to make it bpel go ahead.

[Guest Close XitemeM]

Whatever it is, my average penis size is increasing.
Thank you past me for all your work, and future me, this one's for you buddy

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

Everyone's ganging up on my friend helpmeout. I know it gets tiresome hearing someone else obsess about something you don't care about, and I know that you're just trying to help him move on, but give the guy a break.

I'd say there's more than a handful of OCD members on here. For some guys, it's "when will my dick be 7.38176 inches long? Two months? Three months? I have to know tonight, because my girlfriend needs to buy her airline ticket". For others, it's " My dick is 10 X 7, but my girlfriend says she's been with two guys who were 12 X 11. What are the odds this is true? 1 out of 800, 1 out of 1002? 1 out of 2030?"? So helpmeout is obsessing about what the true average is. So what. I would expect the rest of the world to react badly, but isn't this the place where people are supposed to vent these types of insecurities?

Guys, come on, we're all obsessing about something on here. Don't you think it's a little mean to get on the guy who's obsessing about something you're not, just because you're OK with that thing. I can see ignoring it, but do you really have to get all over someone who is stuck.

I think part of the problem is the double-speak that goes on around here, that many other people have mentioned. And I'm not faulting people for it. I understand the intentions. But, for example(completely made up) - "penis size is not a big factor at all" followed shortly in another thread by "I just fucked my wife with my huge dick and she soaked the sheets". "Average size doesn't matter" followed by "I just pulled on my dick for 5 days straight and I think I've finally reached 6 inches BPEL".

I'm not saying that one person has made such opposing comments. I'm just saying that there are a lot of mixed messages around here. And again, I understand why. People want to be supportive, but people also want to celebrate their successes.

I do think, though, that when it comes to the studies and averages, some people want to convince themselves that the averages in the studies are higher than in the general population, and others want to convince themselves that the averages in the studies are lower. And guys who are well above average, just don't care. But to guys who are close, or who are below average, it matters a lot.

No, you aren't going to pull out a study that lists average penis size when you're with a girl, and I agree, that what the average is doesn't change your size, but knowing the true average does help a guy know whether a girl he's been with might consider him small, average or large. That matters to a lot of guys. If you think that's ridiculous, I think you're being insensitive.

I don't think it's surprising at all that helpmeout is still obsessing about the true average. He cares about it, and the data is confusing. To make matters worse, probably the most quoted study on here is the one that is the most unclear regarding methodology - LifeStlyes.

I have to confess that I think I contributed to his confusion by insisting that LifeStyles was NBPEL. I don't think there's any way we'll ever know. That's why I choose to put it to rest in my mind with the worst case scenario - that it was NBPEL. But I write it off as an anomoly because of the selection process.

This is way too long, but one final thought. I think what keeps people stuck in a loop is conflicting ideas, especially people with OCD tendencies(I should know, trust me). When someone who is obsessing about average size hears that the average length is 5(Wessells) and then the next day hears that it's 5.9(LifeStyles), they can't get out of the loop, especially if they sense that someone may be bending the truth just to make them feel better. Telling them to stop obsessing is of no help at all. Trust me. If you want to help someone who is stuck in a loop, try to help them see a clear answer to their question.

So to helpmeout, here's my attempt to help you out:

I have to admit that I never paid too much attention to the length studies until you started posting here. I obsess about girth, but you made me curious, so I started rereading all the studies I had read and paid attention to the length results. Here's my conclusion based on rereading only about half of the studies.

I agree with you that there are a couple of studies that put BPEL(either directly or derived by adding 1.6 - 2.3 to BPFL) at around 6 - 6.2. These include Wessells(measured, not derived at 6.1 - 6.2), the British study(derived at 6.1), the Italian study(derived at 6), and Greek(derived at 6). But there are others, most of which are stretched length and NBP, that come up with a derived BPEL of less than 6. I think most of the ones I'm thinking of are Middle Eastern or Asian, which I know you don't care about.

Here's one for you, though. The German study. Measured BPEL in a lab. No self-measurement. Not sure how they selected the subjects, but I think it was a Urology department, so it was probably reasonable. I'm not sure though, so I won't bend the truth on you. I would like to read the study to find out. But the BPEL in that study was 5.7 inches. Definitely BPEL. Someone at Thunders read the full article. That's white Europeans. Probably 30 - 50 % of Americans have some German ancestry, so I would say that's about as American as you can get.

helpmeout, I obsess about the studies just as much as you do, if not more. If you want to discuss the different studies and the different ways to twist and interpret them, PM me. It would be fun.

And to all you meanies, he's just dick-obsessed, just like all of you. Give him a break.

Good night.

[ColtAR-15 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ColtAR-15]

Excellant piece Thinjohny. I can definately sympathize with Helpmeout because I have proposed some of the same arguments before and on more than a few occasions I have been ganged up on here. A rep for you.

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

Thanks Coltar. Yeah, I know, people can get a bit impatient around here, but I think it's just frustration that someone else is so stuck on something they're not bothered by at all. They can't understand it.

I remember you are girth-obsessed like me. Speaking of studies, I think the Italian one is a good one for you. It has the highest flaccid girth number recorded in any serious study I've seen - around 3.93 inches flaccid girth. It was around 3300 guys. If we say that on average, guys gain around 1 inch with an erection, that would put erect girth at around 4.93. That's higher than any other study I know of, and it's still way lower than what you and I both would have thought from seeing other guys in the shower. And again, that's European guys, not Asian or Middle Eastern, so even guys who discount the Asian and Middle Eastern studies, can still feel confident that average erect girth is under 5 inches. A few of the Middle Eastern and Asian ones had flaccid girth at around 3.5. One was 3.25.