Let's talk politics.

[islander]

Aside from a flat or tiered tax one thing that could be done is to allow w2 earners to have more and higher deductions. Why should they be penalized for being Indians instead of chiefs?
I agree that chiefs should get more leeway they are taking the risk but the difference in taxable deductions is huge.

I'm a business owner and thoroughly use and enjoy the tax code. I mean wow it's so good. But if I was a wage earner I would be paying income tax on gross earnings that my self employed counterpart can knock down by 50% or more to get to their net taxable income. Gap is too wide.

[somebodyelse]

Only problem with a flat tax is that with a flat tax, the amount taken in taxes from the wage earner is a far greater "real" amount to their livable wage.

Like if you were to take 15% from everybody. If someone was making 30k a year that's $4500.. that's now a wage of 25,5 a year, which translates into just over 2k a month... In a housing market like this, that's barely enough to cover rent for a family.

That means both "parents" will have to work... But then you want to be "anti-feminist" in paying women unequal pay, which then screws every working family ANYWAY...

Now someone making 250k at 15% is 37,5.

at 250k, 37,5 drops their income to 212,500

That equates to just under $20,000/month.

Not only is that 37,5 from a person making 200k (since very few people in the country make more than that) not nearly enough to cover road and infrastructure problems, the idea that taxes will be able to be picked up from sales taxes, falls insanely flat when the main consumers (the people on the bottom)can't afford anything because ONE, their wages are too low, and TWO, the sales tax eats up the rest of their money.

Second, it creates socioeconomic nightmares where Slums and lavish neighborhoods become real things that exist right next to each other like in developing worlds. "Rich" neighborhoods would keep their money and insist on only repairing their roads and infrastructure where the poor areas will be left with crumbling roads, collapsing bridges and bursting watermains because their collective tax income is less than the needed. There will always budget shortfalls and the first things cut will be transportation and education.

If you're trying to stop the economy all together, yeah, flat tax and artificially low wages work brilliantly.

There's this nostalgia for the 1950s when government was small and leave it to beaver was everybody's life lived.

Problem is, in the 1950s, the tax rate on millionaires was over 90% for every dollar you made over a million (Relative: $400k was the actual crossover to 91%. (http://federal-tax-rates.insidegov.com/l/42/1957) when you have that kind of taxing, that's how you can create the FDIC, Social Security, Urban Renewal (which was a TERRIBLE thing) but had plenty of "shovel ready"projects that created insanely inhumane conditions for American citizens in industrial areas, Suburan Sprawl and tract homes, etc.

How the FLIP do you think they paid for those highways they used to cut through downtown neighborhoods and displace TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans and hundreds of thousands of small businesses?! Money just popped up outta nowhere?


I mean shit...

I said I wasn't going to get into this thread again... *shuts up*

[somebodyelse]

RAAGHHGHHGHGHGHHGA....

These posts in this thread make my head explode. Such a wealth of misinformation and almost WILLFUL ignorance from a select few (Landi not included).

There's absolutely NO excuse for you people to be so damn uninformed when ALL of this crap is on the internet, EASILY accessible to you. All it takes is HALF a brain and reading!

But then again, nearly 1 in 4 Americans are functionally illiterate (can perform basic reading, but haven't the ability to process complex concepts when reading)
http://study.com/articles/Illiteracy...n_Society.html

*head explodes*

[Cavalier]

That was a bit unnecessary. There are differing views and theories on how both policy and economics should work in this country, that's why we have two political parties here. If you can't debate this without resorting to using terms like willful ignorance, half a brain and illiterate because others may disagree with you, then maybe you should stay out of this thread. Let's keep it civil.

[somebodyelse]

I agree, there's differing "views"

When objectively reviewing history, there's "truth"

I tried to stay out of this thread because I don't think "debating views" is productive. It gives credence to willfully denying the actions of a generation or multiple generations before who tried the same logic and failed.

It says "oh yeah, you have facts, but my Feels are more important."

That's all. If you want to delete my comments I have absolutely no problem with that. I just wanted to address the flat tax thing because that's a friend of mine. Maybe I should have taken it to PM, who knows.

[Cavalier]

There is nothing wrong with the the passion you show for your views. It appears that you have spent the time to educate yourself in this area and you have a right to voice your opinions. I would just like to see it stay civil.

[dmizzle]

We are debating views because WE all have the same goal, WE just believe there are different ways to get there. Jackxxx, as far as Obamacare, you are not buying insurance from the government, you are buying from private companies. Besides other minor details, Obamacare basically states everyone needs to buy insurance. If you cant afford it, the government will assist with breaks. As far as taxes, I do not like a flat tax. I think the more you earn, the more you pay. Billionaires need to contribute more to infrastructure and education. This should not apply to small businesses as do take risk, but it you make a wage from your business, you should be taxed, but the business should get breaks. Someone mentioned a plan for immigration. Honestly one of the better plans Ive heard, just not sure it will work. If someone told you that you had one year to sell your house, pack up everything you own and go to Mexico where you may or may not know anybody, not sure if most would do that. But if we made it impossible for illegals to work here, that would stop them from coming and maybe some would leave. I cannot believe we give illegal aliens government assistance, drivers licenses, thats craziness. But some good ideas thrown around. But I also don't believe immigration should be the number one issue. Jobs , education and rebuilding our infrastructure should be top priority. If we closed loopholes for billionaires and hugr corporations imagine how we could rebuild our Country and create jobs. I would like to see high speed, better highways in cities, bridges.

[CUSP82]

Let me ask you all why is it "fair" for a guy who works harder and makes more money, a guy who studied harder in school when most guys were fooling around, or a guy who just decides to work 60 hours a eek instead of 40 to pay more in taxes? So it seems fair does not mean equal? And who exactly decides what fair is?

[DickerSchwanz]

Let me ask you all why is it "fair" for a guy who works harder and makes more money, a guy who studied harder in school when most guys were fooling around, or a guy who just decides to work 60 hours a eek instead of 40 to pay more in taxes? So it seems fair does not mean equal? And who exactly decides what fair is?

Its only seen in the greater context of society. In itself taxing is never fair.
A nurse with less qualification earns less then a doc. But she might be harder working.. hard to say. If both pay the same tax she wouldnt be able to sustain her life as everything else costs the same for both.

The doc still has more money to spent but the nurse at least can live a comfortable life. The lesser tax for her means that it keeps society together.
Its a balance with market mechanics. Cause otherwise the gap widens and the whole society will suffer including high earners.

A totaly free market will never work like a totally regulated wont when it comes to society. Inbetween there is a whole lot of unfairness of course. Which brings us to the interest groups / unions who either lessen the unfairnes or broaden it.
This then brings us to the politicians who have to keep the society in balance. This is the weak part since some years.

I was highly skeptical about trump looking at it from outside. But this guy at least seems to understand the basic premises of how to keep a society in balance.

[burtybasset]

And now for a little liberal progressive leftism, coming soon to a western society near you.