Angiogenesis? Arteriogenesis? Limiting tissue and supporting tissue and theories.

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

There has been an idea put forward that through manipulation of circulation in the penis, one can trigger growth of new blood vessels and get the penis to grow from the inside out as it were. People who have experimented with what has been dubbed "the Angion Method" have for the most part seen big jumps in vascularity and hardness. Some, including myself have seen some moderate gains in size as well.

I thought I would start a thread to discuss. debate and just generally think out loud about how and why this method works, and what would be the optimum amount of workouts vs. recovery times. It is hard to gauge with this technique as it is so seemingly "low impact", not producing a feeling of post workout fatigue the way most PE workouts do. I managed to do two workouts a day for four or five days in a row before I experienced an EQ crash. It was as if the fatigue was cumulative, and it took that much time and working out to produce such a fatigued state. In my experience, when I have overdone it with a PE workout, I can tell right away. But not so much with this one. Anyways, there are a few members here who have been trying this style of workout, and probably others who haven't tried it, but likely have knowledge, experience, and just ideas and theories that may be helpful. Or at the least interesting.

The method itself relies on rapidly drawing blood OUT of the penis, the theory (I think) being that shear stress causes blood vessel growth. I am not sure how it works myself, but it does seem to work. And it is easy. It is also cheap, requiring only lube, and no equipment other than your own. Beats the heck out of using clamps and tiger trap contraptions. Or buying expensive pumps or extenders. All of which I have done.

The pump and the extender, along with jelqs, produced good gains for me. An inch and a half in length, and a half inch in girth. This method has got me excited as it gives me the same perpetually chubbed up feeling my first adventures in PE gave me. I'm just trying to get a better idea of what is happening structurally in the penis. Can we grow the "supporting tissue" of the Corpora Cavernosum via burst of high force circulation? Or do we have to stretch and break down the limiting tissue of the tunica? anatomy of a penis.jpg

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

High force circulation? I guess that means an increase in the force of the blood flowing throw them arteries and that stuff. Don't people who have unregulated high blood pressure, and there are many walking around, have this all day long? Hey it even gets higher if they're mad or try and exercise; does this mean they're growing blood vessels all over the place?

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

I mean in terms of "shear force" not high blood pressure. Blood rushing through arteries increases their diameter, and increases the number of collateral arteries.

[USGainEx Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close USGainEx]

I think this idea has merit, but maybe the physiology is off a bit. I tried it a couple of times, and even use it after manual clamping to restore flow by clearing out the hypoxic blood.

I think what's really going on here is that you're inducing a mild hypoxic state by keeping the blood pulled out, which affects the vessels all the way back to wherever any kind of restriction starts. Unlike manual clamping, though, it creates a negative pressure instead of positive, collapsing veins and arteries that can't keep up with demand. Those vessels enlarge, improving flow, but without the post-workout girth pump.

I don't think you're pulling blood out of the corpora. The arteries of the penis don't supply just the corpora, but the surrounding tissues as well, and you're SHUNTING blood away from the corpora by pulling it through those surrounding tissues. When the arteries react to the induced hypoxia and grow larger, you've improved supply, and the surrounding tissues will form new and bigger vessels as well.

Just my hypothesis, and I welcome and appreciate discussion for or against

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

Interesting for sure.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Arteries will increase their diameter to a certain extent. A person with high blood pressure will have greater pressure inside the vessels causing it to expand more to each contraction. Now if this extra force, and yes you can call it sheer force, is responsible for making more blood vessels then there would be no such thing as HBP because the body will simply make more vessels to accommodate the force.

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

Does the blood travel through the arteries and vessels faster when one has HBP?

Or does the blood get thicker, or what is at work that sends the BP upwards? I should really know this, as my dad has HBP, and his mom had it, and I will likely have it.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Due to narrowing and hardening of vessel walls as we age the BP increases. For a young guy a BP of 120/70 is fine. For an older guy in his 60's 140/90 is fine.

As walls abnormally get harder and narrow ( for many disease reasons) the heart must pump with more force to drive the same amount of blood. It simply gets worn out.
There are many HBP drugs out there all with different sites of action; some at the vessel level and some at the cardiac level in order to lessen the work on the heart. The diuretics ( some call it a water pill) actually helps to reduce the strain on the heart by lowering the blood volume.

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

With the different M.O. of this method, not seeking expansion from the inside out, what causes the "fatigue" that leads to EQ crashes? I understand, well kind of understand why my penis doesn't want to get hard for a half hour or so after a Bathmate and jelqing session. It actually, physically feels "whooped up on", but not with this method. Today I had to cut my workout short, but then I had random "chubbies" all day long, which is usually a good sign of gains to come. When I had to keep that workout to twenty minutes, I thought I'd maybe get another one in before bedtime tonight. But I don't think I'm going to now. I think that twenty minute workout likely hit the "sweet spot" in terms of how much work is actually optimal.

[USGainEx Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close USGainEx]

With the different M.O. of this method, not seeking expansion from the inside out, what causes the "fatigue" that leads to EQ crashes? I understand, well kind of understand why my penis doesn't want to get hard for a half hour or so after a Bathmate and jelqing session. It actually, physically feels "whooped up on", but not with this method. Today I had to cut my workout short, but then I had random "chubbies" all day long, which is usually a good sign of gains to come. When I had to keep that workout to twenty minutes, I thought I'd maybe get another one in before bedtime tonight. But I don't think I'm going to now. I think that twenty minute workout likely hit the "sweet spot" in terms of how much work is actually optimal.

The fatigue comes from the effects of short bouts of hypoxia. The way I understand it, comparing clamping to AM could be analogous to holding your breath; where clamping would be taking a deep breath and going as long as possible before breathing out, AM would be emptying your lungs and going as long as possible without breathing in.

You're using your thumbs like a peristaltic pump and outrunning your supply. The body's response is, of course, to increase supply by increasing vascularity. That's why it gets harder and harder to outrun it, which shows up as being able to keep your erection for longer during the workout.

They've been studying this effect with cancer growth. Some forms of tumor actually use the effects of intermittent hypoxia to increase their own blood supply and grow like wildfire.

[watersnake Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close watersnake]

This guy has a theory that is may be changing PE, and some would rather stiffle the theory. Open your mind. I don't even know what the theory is or what the exercises are, but I have an open mind. Biology is not stagnant! I really hate watching videos because I get anxiety about porn. However I can tell by reading about people's PIs that something is legit here and even old geezers like Cusp should have an open mind.

[USGainEx Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close USGainEx]

This guy has a theory that is may be changing PE, and some would rather stiffle the theory. Open your mind. I don't even know what the theory is or what the exercises are, but I have an open mind. Biology is not stagnant! I really hate watching videos because I get anxiety about porn. However I can tell by reading about people's PIs that something is legit here and even old geezers like Cusp should have an open mind.

The supposed physiology, and even physics, behind this method is extremely flawed. Yes, the method has merit, but the explanation is such bullshit that you can't blame folks who have knowledge of these things for immediately throwing up a red flag. Hell, less than two minutes into the guy's video, I laughed out loud.

But it will work, even if just for maximising EQ, because the method is good even though the theory is garbage.

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

Nobody is trying to stifle anyone. It is a moot point, but I wish his comment that got him (Janice) kicked off the forum was still there, not only because I'm nosy, but then folks could see it was legit and not because someone is trying to stifle him. It is not as if we are all clinging to some fundamental PE dogma like some kind of religious sect. This exercise seems to be working, and it would be good to understand its mechanics, if for no other reason than to maximize gains and better understand what methods would work best in conjunction with it. I think I have a relatively open mind. That just means if facts and logic lead me to conclude what I believe is wrong, I will change it. Being open minded doesn't mean you take leave of critical thought, or that any and all hypotheses put forward are somehow equally valid. There are grown people who believe they can be healed by crystals. Should I have an open mind about that? Of course not.

I would like to better understand how this exercise works, and how it triggers growth. Unfortunately, nobody seems to really know, and the dude who came up with the exercise is off on some wild goose chase, seeking out only information that confirms what he already believes.

[USGainEx Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close USGainEx]

I would like to better understand how this exercise works, and how it triggers growth. Unfortunately, nobody seems to really know, and the dude who came up with the exercise is off on some wild goose chase, seeking out only information that confirms what he already believes.

Well, I tried

[raybbaby Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raybbaby]

I'm not sure that is right though either. It's a possibility, but I'm not sure that is in fact what is happening.