Nature of Gains

[Ultimate Burrito]

I posted this in my progress log and got a lot of likes and feedback. Figured this would be a fun open discussion. I don't intend to be the leader of this discussion just the initiator and facillitator. Here we go:


The whole concept of extenders is to slowly create micro tears along the shaft and when you rest and heal the tears are repaired and gaps are filled in this creating new cell growth and increasing both length and volume of the burrito. The amazing thing about extenders is the the cell repair is permament! You will not go back, it's not like your body eats the cell repair haha.

The risk with manual only routines is that most of the gains come from stretching the ligaments out. That's why a long cementing period is recommended because there is a degree of refractory.

To see optimum gains you want to do a combo of both. Stretch the ligs and generate the cell growth. If you lose any gains after you stop it was most likely the ligs trying to return back to base state. Think of it like a rubber band. A fresh rubber band has a set size. You stretch it and it gets longer but when you take the tension off it goes back to it's original size. But, continue stretching that rubber band over and over for a period of time and guess what? The "At rest" size is going to be longer than the original because it's become stretched out. This is how it works. Ligs are like the rubber band. I always recommend to slightly overshoot your length goals to account for the concept I just described.

[incogneeetoe]

From "Penile Traction Therapy (Penile Lengthening Device)" In Penile Augmentation, 2016

"...the action mechanism of penile traction therapy has not been clearly explained. Tissue growth occurs as a result of tissue adaptation in response to application of chronic traction… This process is thought to be cellular proliferation like the process of distraction osteogenesis resulting from bone lengthening procedures by using traction… Prolonged traction force on tissue results in an adaptation reaction at a cellular level, which thereby results in the expansion of the tissues

Mechanotransduction is a cellular signal transduction in response to mechanical stimuli, which resulted in modulating almost all aspects of cell function, including cell growth, differentiation, migration, gene expression, protein synthesis, and apoptosis

It is thought tissue growing against chronic traction is one of the tissue protective mechanisms to try to loss of mechanical strength by subsequent collagen degradation.

In addition, depolymerization of collagen fibers by increase in degradative enzymes induced not only weakening of the fibers by collagen degradation but the increase in newly synthesized collagen, which resulted in providing the extension of the tissue without trauma.

the use of traction device is not just to stretch the tissue mechanically, but to actually induce tissue growth to make real gain of additional penile length. "

[Ultimate Burrito]

From "Penile Traction Therapy (Penile Lengthening Device)" In Penile Augmentation, 2016

"...the action mechanism of penile traction therapy has not been clearly explained. Tissue growth occurs as a result of tissue adaptation in response to application of chronic traction… This process is thought to be cellular proliferation like the process of distraction osteogenesis resulting from bone lengthening procedures by using traction… Prolonged traction force on tissue results in an adaptation reaction at a cellular level, which thereby results in the expansion of the tissues

Mechanotransduction is a cellular signal transduction in response to mechanical stimuli, which resulted in modulating almost all aspects of cell function, including cell growth, differentiation, migration, gene expression, protein synthesis, and apoptosis

It is thought tissue growing against chronic traction is one of the tissue protective mechanisms to try to loss of mechanical strength by subsequent collagen degradation.

In addition, depolymerization of collagen fibers by increase in degradative enzymes induced not only weakening of the fibers by collagen degradation but the increase in newly synthesized collagen, which resulted in providing the extension of the tissue without trauma.

the use of traction device is not just to stretch the tissue mechanically, but to actually induce tissue growth to make real gain of additional penile length. "

So what's your take on that? What does all that mean to you?

[USGainEx]

That's a concept I haven't heard of until now. I had no idea the body would break collagen fibers down to weaken them so they could extend without being damaged.

[raybbaby]

I always had the feeling my gains were in fact from cell proliferation and not lig stretch. I could just feel the fatigue in my entire shaft, not just the ligs. I have never lost ANY length ever. My best length gains always come from low intensity expansion exercises, more jelqs than anything else, and traction with an extender or a down-the leg type stretcher at very low stretch/intensity. Just work the penis and keep it gently outstretched. The penis can't be forced to grow, but it can be encouraged to get a little bigger, week by week.

[incogneeetoe]

So what's your take on that? What does all that mean to you?

Basically my take is that what your initial post said is correct.

If I read the research correctly, and I am not a cellular biologist (though I play one on TV), the theory of penile tissue expansion by mechanical traction is not a new idea.

At a cellular level, the traction therapy stimulates mechanotransduction, and ultimately encourages cell production.

I am not going to pretend that I really understand all this, but from what I have read mechanotransduction is a process by which physical forces (traction) are converted into biochemical signals that are then integrated into cellular responses. It plays a central role in bone repair and regeneration. Mechanical stimulation activates intracellular signaling pathways that come together with growth factors to promotes bone formation.

This kind of traction has been used in the treatment of multiple conditions throughout the body. It has been used for tissue expansion in plastic, orthopedics, and reconstructive surgery. Meaning, it is not all that different from generation of new tissue by applying skin expanders in plastic surgery.

My interpretation is that we need to do PE in cycles to allow the tissue to grow and recover.

Meaning do some PE work, ideally make gains, then take some time to cement gains, even take a break, then start again, etc. We are not just stretching out ligaments or skin, we are actually encouraging the body to create new tissue.

The body should adjust to the “new normal”, then you could start again and potential make more gains. Theoretically, if you don’t stop and allow the body to adjust to the new normal, then maybe you get stuck at a certain level, or a plateau, because you are not allowing for the tissue to grow.

[Ultimate Burrito]

That is exactly what I believe. For anyone that has followed me this past year or so, you know I'm a big advocate for rest. I typically go strong for 6 or 7 months usually 5 days PE and 2 rest and once or twice during that period take closer to a week off. Then I take an extended break for about a month.

I have done less PE hours and gained as much or more than the typical member accounts here over the same duration of time. Plus I don't get burned out or create some other injury pushing myself too hard.

As you said about the body needing time to heal, I think that is one of the reasons members reach plateaus. You will notice that eventually they take an extended "decon" break and then go at it again. To me deconditioning is a misconstrued concept. More proper name would be "healing" break. Here's the catch though, after the healing break you got to go through the same process gradually encouraging mitosis which can take a few months. I see a lot of members get discouraged because they took a "deconditioning" break, went back at it and saw no results after a couple of weeks. It takes longer in most instances.

I started extending again after a long break. I've mentally prepared myself to not expect anything significant for at least 2 months.

I think the website for Quick Extender Pro does a really good job explaining the science behind traction and typical time line for expecting gains. I do think their claims about amount one can expect from the website is grossly exaggerated but the concept and theory is sound. That's where I learned about mitosis.

Wow, i said a lot more than I was planning, did this all from my phone sorry if there are typos!

[Ultimate Burrito]

To add to this concept...

Extending and manual PE creates the micro tears and new cell growth. If this is believed to be true then pumping or othe girth exercises right after extending or stretches should help maximize the degree of the tears and then a few rest days afterwards allows for proper healing. In theory this approach would provide the most bang for the buck. So a practical approach would be to do length for several days followed by a good intense girth workout and then rest a few days. Then repeat.

What do you guys think?

[incogneeetoe]

Or length a few months then girth a few months?