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[Theory] The reason some people can't gain no matter what

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  • [Theory] The reason some people can't gain no matter what

    Ever wondered why extender manufactureres never claim 100% success rate? The figures I see is 95%, 97.5%, 98%, etc. This is even even true for studies where they do their own research on their own device where they obviously want the best results possible.

    The reason is some people literally can't gain no matter what. And when you can't even gain from extenders.... --> your PE career is done.

    So here comes the juicy stuff, which is why a certain percentage of the population can't gain, and it has nothing to do with dedication. I also believe the figure is a bit higher than the figure given above. A figure of around 5-10% being unable to gain is more reasonable. There's largely 2 different reasons people can't gain:

    1) The first reason is environmental based, psychological based, physical based and maybe even genetics based and it deals with having a tense pelvic floor. Just think about it. How can you actually gain from extending/stretching/hanging etc if you have constant tension in your pelvic floor / penis? It can't relax, stretch and gain. People in the hanging business also often talk about hanging until "fatigue" since that is when gains occurs, how would that work with an overractive, tense PF(pelvic floor)?

    Looking at the figures of how common having an overractive/tense PF is, it actually also kind adds up mathematically that this portion of the population can't gain /struggle really with gaining. This is a figure from wikipedia of how common it is (I assume that if you have CPPS you also have a tense PF):

    Chronic nonbacterial prostatitis, also known as chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome (CP/CPPS), is long term pelvic pain and symptoms with urination without evidence of a bacterial infection.[3] It affects about 2 to 6% of men.[3]

    How many have tense PF, but not CPPS? Add that to the figure. Another thing worth pointing out is that CP/CPPS and probably tense PF as well occurs way more frequently for people aged 50+, so subtract that from the calculation (since vast majority of people who do PE are probably way younger. At this point our figure is around 2-10% or something. So it kinda adds up that these people realy struggle with gaining (if they can even gain at all). Hence we get the 5-10% figure of people not being able to gain, if you combine this with the point below.

    2) The second reason is more or less purely genetics based and it deals with ligaments/tunica/tissue toughness. All the extender studies are pretty clear on this: Gains from extenders COMPLETELY STOP after about 6 months of use. You can visit any study and they'll confirm this. The reason the extenders stop working is because of ligaments/tunica/tissue toughness that's built up as a response to the exercises (in this case extending). And this is where the genetics part comes in. Some people are LITERALLY just born with this type of toughness from the gecko making it close to impossible if not impossible to gain. So when they get an extender for the first time, they literally can't even gain.

    Most people who can gain can gain around 0.4-1.1" from extenders, some with really good genetics can gain 1.5", and people with bad genetics can't gain a thing. Inb4 someone says, just up the tension bro, just get a hanger bro, just up the force bro. Here's the thing. People have tried. I can't prove this to you, but I've been making mental data points of people making posts in the neighborhood of this (ie talking about trying hanging after they're done with extending, etc). And what I've found is that hanging as a whole have pretty lackluster results, but even more so if they reached their "genetic potential" with extending first. I've yet to see a single person really gain anything from a hanger after being inccapable of gaining more from extenders (having reached their "natural/genetic limit/potential").
    Kent09
    Senior Member
    Last edited by Kent09; 11-19-2019, 09:07 PM.

  • #2
    Pelvic floor issues can be treated .

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
      Pelvic floor issues can be treated .
      Honestly, I'm not sure, which is what makes this so fucked up and also why they can never gain (no matter what). To take it one step further, let's not talk about just having a tense PF and urinary problems, but literally about CPPS. One study I'm looking at which referenced the results from another study said that in terms of efficiency, physical therapy and psychological care doesn't offer any significant benefit over a placebo.

      Maybe it's somewhat cureable if you just have a tense PF, but idk if you literally have CPPS which also makes a bit of sense. Think about it like this. Have you ever really heard about someone who have truly recovered from this condition? Like truly recovered? So a bit of a coincidence, but I was watching some 3 year old youtube videos by a guy who made a couple videos about this condition, and stretches you should do and what not, and then I checked some of his latest vids, and guess what? He still has the condition 3 years later. Maybe you can learn to cope with the condition a little better? But idk if you can actually fix urinary and tension problems.

      Btw, I also believe this group account for the majority of PE injuries as well, maybe not in terms of absolute numbers, but in terms of proportions. Obviously I'm just throwing out random numbers at this point, but probably 90-95% of hard flaccid cases is in this group. Other hf cases are from severe injuries to the penis which restricts bloodflow can be from sex/mastrubation/PE injuries. Also, I don't believe you just do PE with a tense PF and then you get hard flaccid which seems to be what some people on here believe. That makes absolutely no sense, if that was the case we'd have way more hard flaccid sufferers given how suprisingly common CPPS etc is. I think HF(hard flaccid) comes from having a tense PE and then getting an injury from PE and then their mental goes south.

      If you have a tense PF, you're left in a situation where jelqing isn't worth the risk, pumping and clamping are notoriously known to reduce stream when urinating /making urinary problems worse (atleast temperory, idk beyond that). When clamping you also have to kegel which is bad to do if you have tension. You're also left in a situation where you're incapable of gaining length because of the arguments from the original post. ie your PE career is more or less done at this point.

      Or you have none of these issues, but you can still not gain because of ligaments/tunica/tissue toughness and thickness. There's also other genetic factors at play as well, making you unable to gain. It's not just toughness.
      Kent09
      Senior Member
      Last edited by Kent09; 11-20-2019, 09:14 AM.

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      • #4
        What I can confirm is that I got a tensed PF 2 times. Both of them was caused in the 2 periods I did intense manual stretching. So I have confirmed by now that the intense penis stretching is tensing the PF.
        Extending and light jelqing never tensed my PF.
        With RKs and complete stopping from every PE activity the PF is getting balanced again

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TeoDeles View Post
          What I can confirm is that I got a tensed PF 2 times. Both of them was caused in the 2 periods I did intense manual stretching. So I have confirmed by now that the intense penis stretching is tensing the PF.
          Extending and light jelqing never tensed my PF.
          With RKs and complete stopping from every PE activity the PF is getting balanced again
          Tense PF as a whole is really bad and negatively affect gains (no matter how much or how little tension you have), but when I'm talking about tense PF above being a death sentence to PE, I'm more so referring to tension that is a level worse than what you're describing, and more so in the neighborhood of CPPS. ie chronic tension that includes urinary problems (emptying problems, frequent urination, having to kegel to get out last bit of pee out, often having to pee right after you just went (because you couldn't empty properly), weak stream, etc and a level worse than that again is literally CPPS (everything as before, but in addition; pelvic pain, pain when urinating, pain when ejaculating, pain when sitting on a hard surface and more).

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          • #6
            Extender use doesn't guarantee gains. You're more apt to find a larger proportion of gains comes from more intense activities- such as manual stretches and hanging.
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            • #7
              Wtf where are you even geting the negative bs from?

              Guys onsite deal with pf issues on a regular basis and move on .

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              • #8
                In order for the PF to be balanced Rks and stretching is a must but IMO the tensed PF is not happening without mental sentimental grief and anxiety.
                These are the things that are creating the proper ground of a tensed PF to be crated. So the kegels and PE are just an oil in the fire.

                Relaxation of mind is the key for a PF to become relaxed and also stay that way.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TeoDeles View Post
                  In order for the PF to be balanced Rks and stretching is a must but IMO the tensed PF is not happening without mental sentimental grief and anxiety.
                  These are the things that are creating the proper ground of a tensed PF to be crated. So the kegels and PE are just an oil in the fire.

                  Relaxation of mind is the key for a PF to become relaxed and also stay that way.
                  The mental part seems to be the most difficult to deal with.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                    Wtf where are you even geting the negative bs from?

                    Guys onsite deal with pf issues on a regular basis and move on .
                    CPPS makes you think pessimistically.
                    My Work

                    ARTICLES:

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                    • #11
                      So far I've gained 2 inches doing PE. I've had about a year of extending. I took a long break (about a year) from PE. I have pics of my length and girth measurements in my profile. I am solely extending now, hopefully I will prove that you can keep gaining regardless. Or maybe it's the burrito genes not the gecko genes.... Gained 38% going for 45%.
                      Progress Log | Extender Progress Log
                      Recommended Routine
                      2016 (5 1/2 x 4 1/2) > 2017 (7 5/8 x 5 5/8) > 2020 (8 x 5 3/4) > Oct 2021 (7 1/2 x 5 3/4)
                      BPEL Gains: 2.5" | MEG Gains: 1.25"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TeoDeles View Post
                        Relaxation of mind is the key for a PF to become relaxed and also stay that way.
                        Stress can wreak havoc on many levels: PF tension, performance anxirety, declined dopamine levels and even hormone imbalances.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Big Al View Post
                          Extender use doesn't guarantee gains. You're more apt to find a larger proportion of gains comes from more intense activities- such as manual stretches and hanging.
                          What make you say that? The idea and concept behind extenders just seems to be superior. I feel like the results are also vastly superior from what I've seen people posting and talking about. Besides, a lot of people are pulling at max force before they've even reached 0.5" gain from manual stretching. It seems to be really hard /if not impossible to gain after you've reached your limit either manually or with an extender.

                          Originally posted by Ultimate Burrito View Post
                          So far I've gained 2 inches doing PE. I've had about a year of extending. I took a long break (about a year) from PE. I have pics of my length and girth measurements in my profile. I am solely extending now, hopefully I will prove that you can keep gaining regardless. Or maybe it's the burrito genes not the gecko genes.... Gained 38% going for 45%.
                          Please keep me(us, everyone here, etc) updated on your progress. Whether you fail or succeed, it's still a "mental" data point for all of us. I'll say this though, even if you succeed, I personally (can't talk for the others) will consider it a fluke / outlier because I simply haven't seen it being done. The odds are really not on your side. I don't have any mental data points of it happening, and actual conducted studies agree with me. Let me ask you this. Why do you think extender studies stop after 6 months? There's actually a reason for it, because anything beyond that and they don't have anything to show for it (assuming you actually put in the hours into those 6 months. Obviously if you don't use it as much, I don't see why it would just randomly stop working. But the general rule of thumb is 6 months of consistent use where you put in the hours daily).

                          Btw, incase you're curious, this is typical gain trajectory for extender studies spanning a year. I'll give the mean gain for the study body. Month 0-1: 0.94cm, Month 1-3: 0.44cm, Month 3-6: 0.38cm, Month 6-12: 0.06cm. The mean gain from month 6 all the way to month 12 was 0.06cm. They wore the extender for 6 months straight (with high dedication) and all they had to show for it was a 0.06cm gain. And it isn't a 0.06cm gain on average per month, no, it is for the ENTIRE 6 month period (the 6th-12th month).

                          Honestly I'd be really surprised if you can gain. It has been said that taking a break might help though, so if you gain, it could probably be attributed to that, ie regaining some lost size from the break, but it's doubtful you'll gain any meaningful increase beyond your largest point.

                          There are still a few hypotheses out there about how you can gain beyond this point, but they're largely untested, the reason for this is because a lot of them require following people over time, and it's just rare you'll come over their posts talking about this spesifically. Even right now, you could tell and advice someone to try method x,y, z to break their plateau, but it will take MONTHS before they get back to you (if they even get back to you in the first place), and when they do and failed, they have to try something else for a couple months /years. If that doesn't work, onto the next thing, and so it goes. Either way, if you report back in a couple months and haven't gained, I'll probably have some suggestions for stuff you can try that I'm a bit skeptical of. With extending /manual stretching I "know" it won't work. With this other stuff, I'm still a bit unsure from observations (mental data points).
                          Kent09
                          Senior Member
                          Last edited by Kent09; 11-22-2019, 07:43 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kent09 View Post
                            What make you say that? The idea and concept behind extenders just seems to be superior. I feel like the results are also vastly superior from what I've seen people posting and talking about. Besides, a lot of people are pulling at max force before they've even reached 0.5" gain from manual stretching. It seems to be really hard /if not impossible to gain after you've reached your limit either manually or with an extender.
                            If you find something that works well for you, then stick with that method and build upon it until it fails to yield gains.

                            I based my statement on experiences with clients. Many make better gains with lower volume/higher intensity type training. That being said, the newer extenders on the market are rated at higher tension levels. This should make for more potential progress across the training spectrum.

                            Given any singular training method, not everyone will benefit the same way from it.
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