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Physiological Indicators (the original post)

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  • Physiological Indicators (the original post)

    Many people have been asking about PI's, and rather than explain them and list them every time, I thought I'd copy sparkyx's original post from Thunder's Place.

    *Note: Here is a link to a broken down article of sparky's Physiological Indicators.*

    Originally posted by sparkyx
    Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

    After reading accounts of those who have had good growth, as well personal experiences of growth and loss of progress, it has become apparent that there are Physiologic Indicators (PIs') that can guide you.

    PIs (Physiologic Indicators) are the observable physical responses of your penis to the forces applied in PE. Anyone who has done any PE has seen these, yet many don't use them for the invaluable information that they offer. The chances of being successful in PE dramatically improves or drops based on your ability to understand what your "body is telling you"!

    I break PIs down into Negative, Positive and Neutral.

    NEGATIVE PIs meaning that when you see these, it is a sign that you are over training your unit, and you need to cut back the amount of force/time applied. POSITIVE PIs means that it is an excellent indicator that you are NOT over training your unit, and probably improving it. NEUTRAL PIs, are neither obviously positive or negative. They must be INTERPRETED in relation to other definite Positive or Negative PIs. They are referred to as neutral, because at times, they may be a positive indicator, and other times, a negative indicator. Whether these Neutral PIs are positive or negative for YOU...will only become obvious when other DEFINITE Positive or Negative PIs begin to show.

    En español aquí.

    Lets start with some definite Negative PIs;
    -decreased nite and morning wood
    -decreased hardness of erections
    -loss of size

    Now for the definite Positive PIs;
    -larger flaccid hang lasting all day
    -increased nite and morning wood
    -increased hardness of erections
    -increase of normal size

    Neutral PIs;
    -temporary penis contraction after a PE workout
    -slight achyness in your penis
    -increased size temporarily, a few minutes to a couple hours
    -edema in the penis skin

    Of all the PIs, SIZE GAIN OR LOSS is the bottom line! Size loss or gain will give you the final word on whether you are being effective or not.
    So lets use an example and put these PIs in use.

    Lets say a beginner starts with a simple routine, 5 minutes warm-up followed by 5 minutes jelquing. He sees when he is done, his unit is slightly larger, reddish and hangs fuller for a few minutes followed by some contraction. Later on he finds that he has increased nite and morning wood. Together this is a good picture, the increased nite and morning wood indicate that the other Neutral PIs can be interpreted as Positive PIs.At that point, it would be sensible for this newbie to continue this routine and measure himself about once every one to two weeks.

    If after two weeks, all the PIs are the same, yet he has made no gains, he should increase his force and or time of PE.Why? Because there are no PIs indicating over training(Negative PIs), therefore his lack of growth is due to UNDER TRAINING. In this scenario, it would probably be smart to increase his jelque time to 10 minutes. This he should stay with, watching his PIs for indications of Negatives.

    Growth for most of us is a slim margin between too much and too little.

    So going back to our Newbie, so he ups his jelques to 10 minutes, and still has no Negative PIs. This indicates that he is still not into over training. Lets just say, after 2 weeks he remeasures and has 1/4 inch growth. This of course is the ultimate Positive PI, and he should STAY with his routine until he stops growing. Then, and only then would increased force/time be called for.

    Lets take a different scenario;

    John Q Dickpuller has read the latest technique of hanging a bowling ball off his dick and decides to give it a try. First thing he notices is after the work out , his unit turtles up on him (Neutral PI). Later on he sees that morning and nite wood is gone. Finally, when he measures in about a week, he sees he has lost a half inch in length. This bottom line Negative PI indicator tells him he is way into over training! The turtling, interpreted in light of the loss of size and loss of nite and morning wood, is a Negative PI for him.

    John now knows that that contraction of his penis immediately after his workout is an early indicator of over training his unit. He lays off completely and waits for his normal nite and morning wood to return, which it does in about one week. This is a good indicator that he has recovered from the excessive trauma and is ready get back in the game.

    John now tries again, this time with a tennis ball. He sees that after his workout he gets slight shrinkage, that only lasts for 30 minutes. He finds his nite and morning wood improves, and after 2 weeks sees that he is starting to gain size. John now knows that contraction for 30 minutes or less, is an early Positive PI for him, and keeps that in mind whenever he makes any changes to his routine.

    Lets use a third, more complex scenario;

    Mr B. Dog finds that if he whacks his dick with a hammer, it turns purple, and shrinks up for a week. He loses his erections completely. Wisely, he decides to leave it completely alone for 4 weeks. Slowly his nite and morning erections return, his flaccid hang is now longer than before. He find whens he is fully recovered, he has gained a half inch in length and and inch in girth. Here we have a definite Negative PI and a Neutral PI, but interpreted in the light of the final PI (that is, gains), we can say that for Dog, a shrunken and purple penis is a positive indicator of future growth for him, if he takes the time to fully recover.

    Recovery is determined by return of definite Positive PIs.

    Last scenario;

    S. Knucklehead decided to try pumping. He is making slow and steady gains. His nite and morning wood is excellent, best in years. He also finds that his day time flaccid hang is longer than ever and fluffed out most of the day. Mr K knows from this experience that a longer, fluffed flaccid is a Positive PI for him that he is "in the zone". Mr Knuckhead decides to supercharge his pumping session by doing it while clamped. This technique not only feels great, it causes his dick to swell to all time new size with no lymphatic fluid (during the PE)! Knucklehead gets so enthusiastic that he does it for 5 sessions in one day! That nite Mr K. finds his wood is gone, as well as the mornings. He also finds that his penis is hanging shorter and more contracted. He measures himself over the next week and finds that he has lost a full one half inch.

    So even though he found that his unit was huge during the pumping, the resulting definite Negative PI's indicated that it was more trauma than his unit could handle. Mr K. learned that a swollen dick during PE could be a definite Negative PI for him! Mr K took a week off and waited for nite and morning wood, as well as normal flaccid hang to return to normal (Positve PIs).

    Mr K restarted his program, but with 5-10 minutes of clamped pumping. He carefully watched his PIs for indications of over training before adding any force/time.

    The bottom line is, your penis has definite responses to the forces you use on it. Learn to read the Positives and Negatives, and interpret the Neutrals. Using these as guidelines for your workout, you will have a much better chance at dialing in the amount of force/time needed for you to achieve growth.


    This is such a fundamental aspect of PE. We, the new generation of PE'ers (I know I am, I've only been doing it for 6 months!) are lucky people did all the hard work for us already.
    Last edited by remek; 04-13-2009, 12:04 AM.
    Physiological Indicators (the original post)
    Don't forget your KEGELS!

  • #2
    Here is the link to the original thread at TP:

    Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth! - Thunder's Place Free Penis Enlargement Forums
    Physiological Indicators (the original post)
    Don't forget your KEGELS!


    • #3
      I would also add this to the list of Positive PI's:

      -Spontaneous erections during the next day (ie, not wanting to stand up after your break because of the rocket in your pocket).
      Last edited by Cernunnos; 11-12-2008, 09:59 PM.
      Physiological Indicators (the original post)
      Don't forget your KEGELS!


      • #4
        Great thread Cern, maybe we all could add a few PI's as we go.


        • #5
          Thanks, Hairtrigger.

          Good idea about adding more PI's as we discover them. Furthering the science of PE!
          Physiological Indicators (the original post)
          Don't forget your KEGELS!


          • #6
            Regarding PI's...Are some more positive and important than others? Its just I think I remember reading a post by someone who claimed they actually saw a slight decrease in EQ and morning wood when growth was occuring?!

            I often see a bigger flaccid size/hang and take this a a great sign, after all, if size is what your aiming for then surely a bigger flaccid size seems logically a great sign! But often I wont see an increase in EQ or morning wood?!

            Another point would be, what would be more ideal for GROWTH, working out less intensly and with less volume (ie for less time) and seeing positive PIs OR working out with abit more force, then seeing afew negative PIs (such as more turtling) for afew days, but resting for much longer after the workout.

            In the gym, if you hit your bicepts pretty intensly, you do see shrinkage in the muscle for several days, but then growth occurs, but you need up to 4-7 days off resting to be effective this way. Just wondered if anyone PE's like this? While always keeping the workout safe of course!
            Last edited by scientificapproach; 11-17-2008, 05:47 AM.


            • #7
              I see a slight decrease in morning wood and EQ when I am in a gaining routine. This probably occurs because I am at the very edge of overtraining. When I am on a EQ or maintenance routine I will regain my MW and EQ after a week or so. Rest is very important for growth, I only PE three day a week and see pretty good results. Like Scientific mentioned above, find your limits and backoff but remember to have plenty of rest time as well. That is why it is recommended for all newbies to start off light and increase time/reps slowly, this will be the individuals way to know what there unit can take and set a training baseline to work from. Everyone reacts differently to PE so it WILL be up to you to know when to say when.


              • #8
                Ah, sounds similar to me Hairtrigger. Do you still aim to always get a longer flaccid hang for the next day?

                I always think the lower flaccid hang remind me of the "pump" in bodybuilding. The only problem is I dont think it is actually that significant in terms of hypertrophy and growth?! I wonder how significant it is in PE?

                I think I may experiment with very long rest periods. This is how I grow in the gym. Hit a muscle and leave it for 7 days of rest! Why should the penis differ? If your not on steriods the body really does need alot of rest, especially if your not gentically gifted! The fact you say EQ and MW get better after a week kind of suggests that not everything may not be fully healed until about a week has passed?!

                Has anyone ever tried very long rest periods such a 1 on 7 off? Sounds like undertraining I know, but I think it MAY work for some? Remembering that growth occurs when you rest not train! The only thing I would be unsure of is the intensity I should work at in the workout, If you get alot of rest maybe you can take a little more?! But I guess if I start light I can always dial it up later!
                Last edited by scientificapproach; 11-17-2008, 01:13 PM.


                • #9
                  I also see a decline in EQ when growing. It is like your dick has to catch up.

                  For I will restore health unto thee and I will heal thee of thine wounds, saith the Lord Jeremiah 30:17


                  • #10
                    Ah, this is quite interesting. So really, is an improved EQ and MW really a positive PI?? Or more to the point, should a decline in EQ and MW really be a negative PI?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by scientificapproach View Post
                      Ah, this is quite interesting. So really, is an improved EQ and MW really a positive PI?? Or more to the point, should a decline in EQ and MW really be a negative PI?
                      I have tried the 1 on 6 off and gained very little although my MW and EQ was almost blinding. I agree that a great reduction of either MW or EQ could be considered a negative PI, this would be a sign of overtraining. Turtling and/or a slight reduction in flaccid hang is mostly considered a neutral PI, a slightly lower EQ could be in this category as well. It just seems difficult for me to make gains and have a 10.5 EQ at the same time, maybe KP is right, it takes time for everything to catch up after a gaining routine. Keep in mind everyone is different and it will be up to you to make the final decision to know how much your unit can take.

                      I tried to find a balance between the two but could never get any noticeable gains, in theory it make sense that this would be the point where the most gains could be made but I believe it would take a tremendous amount of time to see results. Some people believe you need to get to a point where all the tissues and ligs become fatigued before any real growth can occur, this makes just as much if not even more sense. The Tunica and Ligs are very strong and need constant attention to keep them loosened up for growth. I say this only because it sometimes takes me up to two months to see any gains at all on a gaining routine. The downside is that the smooth muscle can be overtrained very easily along with the PC and PB muscle groups, this is where EQ comes from.

                      So smooth, BC and PC muscles need rest to grow and the Tunica and Ligs need constant conditioning, this has come from my experience's and reading many threads containing this type of information, the TGC theory is the best place to start if you are really interested in learning more. To sum up most of what I have just posted the majority of the work is finding what will produce fatigue in the Tunica and Ligs and allow them to be stretched but slowly enough to prevent overtraining of the smooth muscle so it can grow as well. Without smooth muscle growth you could possibly have a 8" FSL and only 6"EL with a 8 EQ, this would be truly disappointing to me. Having a known set of PI's will help everyone know if they are on track and makes their gains come much easier and safer.


                      • #12
                        Thankyou for that Hairtrigger, a very intersting read!

                        Actually what I was trying to say was maybe a decrease in EQ and MW could actually be a positive PI not a negative one. Meaning that for some people if their errections are weaker and not getting strong morning wood this may actually be a sign they are close to the growth zone?

                        What is the TGC theory? Not heard of that one actually! Yes I am always keen to learn more, knowledge is power and all that I will search for TGC!

                        Ah, I actually always thought the tunica was the same as the smooth muscle part (ie tunica was made from smooth muscle), obviously I need to brush up on my anatomy! Am I still right in assuming the tunica and smooth muscle are both located in the outer shaft ie the visible portion on the penis, while the ligs attach the inner penis shaft to the pubic bone?

                        The way I began to view PE recently was that hardcore weights hanging and intense stretching and the whole keeping everything stretched and loose and defoming tissue was great if you have a high LOT and want to pull lots of inner penis out by deforming the ligs, but if like me you have (I think at least...never 100% sure about my LOT) you have a low lot close to 6-7 O Clock, then you dont have this option (having little inner penis to pull out). And I was thinking that the only hope for someone like me with a low LOT would be to cause actual cellular growth in the outer portion of the shaft (visible penis). I always felt that these two approaches to PE were quite different, on one hand your deforming tissue and moving penis, the other option is causing growth to gain size.

                        Does this make sense, am I correct in my thinking here? If I am right then the goals may require very different approaches, ie deforming ligs takes alot more stress as they are so tough, but causing growth takes a much more gentle touch. Obviously this means you may well see more negative PIs from one form than the other and still reach your desired goal as yes you may be temporaily ovetraining your unit and stopping growth BUT you would be deforming the ligs and pulling penis out!! Hope my theory makes sense?!



                        • #13
                          Yeah, good posts Hairtrigger!

                          I would agree with KP & HT's theory that EQ and MW (thanks for finally finding us some initials for Morning Wood) decrease when you are gaining. Lately I've been trying to keep it as light as possible, just to see if I can gain with, as Hairtrigger says, blinding EQ, but I haven't been at it long enough, nor am I experienced enough (like Ht and KP obviously are), to know whether it will work at all.

                          I read somewhere on Thunder's that sparkyx uses a term "Go" for the moment during your rest day when your penis recovers and starts benefitting from the excercise, usually with a spontaneous erection. KP also referred to a point in the break day when EQ returns. This means you can excercise again, and have probably gained a little from your last day's excercise. It is a really fun thing.

                          The trick is to find that nice little window where you work your penis enough to make some gains, but not enough to overtrain. The difference between training and overtraining. I think most people will not go past this point though - after a while your penis starts making its own rules.

                          I don't know if any of this made sense.
                          Physiological Indicators (the original post)
                          Don't forget your KEGELS!


                          • #14
                            Yeah I hear you on the slight morning wood eq. loss, the thing is
                            I really don't get morning wood all the time, but now when I wake up, I've been prone to getting a lame chubby kinda morning wood, not flaccid, but it's the weakest my dick can be and still look hard. but focused on sex. my EQ has definitly gone up, or at least not decreased at all... only been two weeks.
                            Anyone else
                            Starting stats:
                            BPFL: 4" MFG:4" NBPEL: 5.5"
                            9/15/09 - NPBEL: 6.2" MEG: 5"
                            3/10 ***NEW BPEL: 6.7" - Stopped
                            1/24/12 - started again.
                            NBPEL: 5 3/4" BPEL: 6 3/8' BEG: 5.75" MidEG: 5"
                            New Goal for 2012. BPEL: 7", MEG 6".
                            3/7/12 - Ap90 - Day 1


                            • #15
                              Regarding PI, i get decent quick erection on arousal say 7 and it quickly fades away to 4.5 -5, what is my limiting factor tunicia or SM.

                              My BPFSL is.5" more than BPEL. Thanks