Increase Androgen receptors to help recovery

[adversity2excellence]

I wouldn't hazard a guess but serious sleep deprivation would likely have some negative effect. You'd have to be talking about sustained sleep deprivation for long periods of time. People can accrue sleep deficit and "pay it off" later. Another factor to take into account is not everyone requires the same amount of sleep.

The following study might have some information for you- if not exact details: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4852310

Well look, I see you're hesitant to guess.. The study showed that LH and T secretion is delayed when the sleep cycle is delayed ( I didn't see if it mentioned less hormones overall though, did you?)


Now, seeing as you're hesitant to guess:

a) Is 7.5 hours thorughout puberty from 11-18 instead of the reccommended 9-9.5 hrs enough to say it's ''sleep deprivation''

b) I never felt really too tired sleeping 7:15 on school nights, and 8:15 on weekends (so does that mean for me I need less sleep, how can you determine if a teen needs less sleep or not) I did have trouble waking up at times, and yes I would fall asleep on my bus sometimes, some days I would have ok energy, tough to remember.

Now, I'll ask again if you can hazard a guess. given 7 hours on school nights and 8 hours on weekends instead of the 9.5 hours doctors recommend, is this significant enough sleep deprivation for long enough that any likely negative affects could arise...

[Pegasus]

Well I won't guess either but a massive experiment is being done as most young people get less sleep than that.

[adversity2excellence]

Well I got far less, and although I'm not the only one to have gotten far less, most people would've been a fair bit better off.

The average for an American teen is like 8 hours through junior high and 7 in high school, whereas I got 7 all throughout and maybe not the best sleep on weekends because I'd be up late having a big brother in the room who was on the PC and awoken early by the sun.

And yes it is a big experiment but we can't really take any data from that, unless as Big Al said, it's twins.

[Big Al]

Well look, I see you're hesitant to guess.. The study showed that LH and T secretion is delayed when the sleep cycle is delayed ( I didn't see if it mentioned less hormones overall though, did you?)


Now, seeing as you're hesitant to guess:

a) Is 7.5 hours thorughout puberty from 11-18 instead of the reccommended 9-9.5 hrs enough to say it's ''sleep deprivation''

b) I never felt really too tired sleeping 7:15 on school nights, and 8:15 on weekends (so does that mean for me I need less sleep, how can you determine if a teen needs less sleep or not) I did have trouble waking up at times, and yes I would fall asleep on my bus sometimes, some days I would have ok energy, tough to remember.

Now, I'll ask again if you can hazard a guess. given 7 hours on school nights and 8 hours on weekends instead of the 9.5 hours doctors recommend, is this significant enough sleep deprivation for long enough that any likely negative affects could arise...

If the subject is sleep deprived for long periods then some developmental issues should be expected. As for the 9.5 hours recommended, everyone's different. Unless you developed chronic fatigue and/or felt perpetually sleep deprived it's likely you got all of the sleep you needed.

[adversity2excellence]

If the subject is sleep deprived for long periods then some developmental issues should be expected. As for the 9.5 hours recommended, everyone's different. Unless you developed chronic fatigue and/or felt perpetually sleep deprived it's likely you got all of the sleep you needed.

I feel like I might have chronic fatigue even now. I'm not getting good quality or enough sleep at the moment, and that could be due to anxiety in general.

I had some kind of psychological insomnia throughout adolescence, always wondering when I'd sleep depending on my brother's activity in the room, which kept me up especially in his final years of school. It might just be I only remember the negative occasions more than the nights I just knocked right out, go figure right.

Now as far as all throughout high school, I feel like I had OK energy, I did feel fatigued at times, most days I'd say I could have had more energy, I never really did sport during the day either, but I don't know if I could have defined that as 'chronic fatigue'. I did do wrestling for a good 3-4 years, which would've improved my sleep quality and meant I did sleep earlier at least and easier. I was energetic at training and competitions, especially because I was motivated, but had it been 'chronic fatigue' I don't know if I'd be able to even exert myself at all.

Certainly, I had some symptoms of chronic fatigue in high school now that I think of it, in grades 9, 10 and onwards it wasn't too much, but especially in grade 12 where I had actual insomnia for a few months (most likely psychologically but much more severe)

I don't know what you'd think of it.

So having some chronic fatigue for the later years, but maybe only have some symptoms of it earlier in high school, what would that mean?

I could've had a little more sleep, I was maybe a bit sleep deprived, would this result in permanently lost penile growth (or otherwise). Would the correlation be 100% where whatever I missed I couldn't at least partially grow by catch-up mechanisms, or that even the final few hours of sleep have a lesser impact on facilitating physical growth, such that they matter far less than the first 4 hours of sleep?


EDIT:

https://sleepfoundation.org/press-re...times/page/0/1

This new table actually says 7-8 hours ''may be appropriate" for school aged children, and that 7 hours may be appropriate for teens 14-17 years. It has the reccommended sleep times however ranging from 9-11 and 8-10 for school aged and teens respectively.

If I can get away with 7 hours of sleep now and feel refreshed, then it's likely I may have only needed an hour more back in high school, in which case I would've only been sleeping a little under what I needed.

[Big Al]

I feel like I might have chronic fatigue even now. I'm not getting good quality or enough sleep at the moment, and that could be due to anxiety in general.

I had some kind of psychological insomnia throughout adolescence, always wondering when I'd sleep depending on my brother's activity in the room, which kept me up especially in his final years of school. It might just be I only remember the negative occasions more than the nights I just knocked right out, go figure right.

Now as far as all throughout high school, I feel like I had OK energy, I did feel fatigued at times, most days I'd say I could have had more energy, I never really did sport during the day either, but I don't know if I could have defined that as 'chronic fatigue'. I did do wrestling for a good 3-4 years, which would've improved my sleep quality and meant I did sleep earlier at least and easier. I was energetic at training and competitions, especially because I was motivated, but had it been 'chronic fatigue' I don't know if I'd be able to even exert myself at all.

Certainly, I had some symptoms of chronic fatigue in high school now that I think of it, in grades 9, 10 and onwards it wasn't too much, but especially in grade 12 where I had actual insomnia for a few months (most likely psychologically but much more severe)

I don't know what you'd think of it.

So having some chronic fatigue for the later years, but maybe only have some symptoms of it earlier in high school, what would that mean?

I could've had a little more sleep, I was maybe a bit sleep deprived, would this result in permanently lost penile growth (or otherwise). Would the correlation be 100% where whatever I missed I couldn't at least partially grow by catch-up mechanisms, or that even the final few hours of sleep have a lesser impact on facilitating physical growth, such that they matter far less than the first 4 hours of sleep?


EDIT:

https://sleepfoundation.org/press-re...times/page/0/1

This new table actually says 7-8 hours ''may be appropriate" for school aged children, and that 7 hours may be appropriate for teens 14-17 years. It has the reccommended sleep times however ranging from 9-11 and 8-10 for school aged and teens respectively.

If I can get away with 7 hours of sleep now and feel refreshed, then it's likely I may have only needed an hour more back in high school, in which case I would've only been sleeping a little under what I needed.

Optimally you'll want to get enough sleep to wake automatically and refreshed. If your schedule doesn't allow for it you can attempt to take a nap in your free time. Even a 15 minute cat nap can be benefiical.

[adversity2excellence]

Maybe, I am fabricating all this, and my sleep was ok throughout adolescence.
I ll try and sleep now, empty bladder, see when I wake up.

I told you the bottom line, I did feel fatigue at times, but was able to function, I'd occasionally fall asleep in class, but I think that was particularly my final year when my sleep suffered really bad, other than that, was fatigued a bit but not too much.

So all in all, 7.25 hours on weekdays and 8.25 on weekends, from ages 11-18, when reccommended sleep is 9 hours on average.

May be appropriate 7-8 hours for teens (published by national sleep association)

I'd say maybe 7 wasn't enough for me, but could've been for others, but 9 would've definately been too much. 7 was maybe just a little under?


Thoughts? Once and for all, is there any mechanism for losing potential growth for good, by sleeping below average in puberty?

Does your penis not just grow till it stops, with androgens still high, and the AR receptors just turn off when growth stops?

Like if someone had a low average test throughout puberty versus a high average test level, would the penis reach the same ultimate size, albeit slightly slower?

Is sleep, in this case, just important for releasing hormones? Once the hormones are released they can act on the penis tissue and the AR there, resulting in the growth of tissue, which can occur just as well in the waking hours, as in the sleeping hours, so sleep has a really marginal effect on tissue growth (itll grow during the day too) and the loss of an hour and a half would only be a 5% reduction in test, which actually is marginal too, and might only mean slightly longer time needed for overall final pen

[Big Al]

Maybe, I am fabricating all this, and my sleep was ok throughout adolescence.
I ll try and sleep now, empty bladder, see when I wake up.

I told you the bottom line, I did feel fatigue at times, but was able to function, I'd occasionally fall asleep in class, but I think that was particularly my final year when my sleep suffered really bad, other than that, was fatigued a bit but not too much.

So all in all, 7.25 hours on weekdays and 8.25 on weekends, from ages 11-18, when reccommended sleep is 9 hours on average.

May be appropriate 7-8 hours for teens (published by national sleep association)

I'd say maybe 7 wasn't enough for me, but could've been for others, but 9 would've definately been too much. 7 was maybe just a little under?


Thoughts? Once and for all, is there any mechanism for losing potential growth for good, by sleeping below average in puberty?

Does your penis not just grow till it stops, with androgens still high, and the AR receptors just turn off when growth stops?

Like if someone had a low average test throughout puberty versus a high average test level, would the penis reach the same ultimate size, albeit slightly slower?

Is sleep, in this case, just important for releasing hormones? Once the hormones are released they can act on the penis tissue and the AR there, resulting in the growth of tissue, which can occur just as well in the waking hours, as in the sleeping hours, so sleep has a really marginal effect on tissue growth (itll grow during the day too) and the loss of an hour and a half would only be a 5% reduction in test, which actually is marginal too, and might only mean slightly longer time needed for overall final pen

There are other mechanisms which can drive growth beyond androgen receptor activity.

Good sleep is vital for optimal hormone release.

How was/is your diet and activity level?

Unless there's a control or you can get some complex test to make the determination you may not be able to assess what potential (if any you've lost through a lack of health in your youth.

[adversity2excellence]

There are other mechanisms which can drive growth beyond androgen receptor activity.

Good sleep is vital for optimal hormone release.

How was/is your diet and activity level?

Unless there's a control or you can get some complex test to make the determination you may not be able to assess what potential (if any you've lost through a lack of health in your youth.

As far as androgens, one study showed sleeping from 8 hours to 5 hours, only reduced testosterone by 10%. In my case sleeping only 1.25 hours less than average means its barely a 5% reduction in testosterone.

Another study showed, and GH that is lost through inadequate sleep, is actually released during the day, such that the GH level would be what it would've otherwise been with proper sleep.

As far as sleep being a vehicle for growth, allowing cells to grow and divide, im not sure that cells will grow and divide much more efficiently during sleep, than they would during waking hours. If hormone levels barely vary even with a significant loss of sleep time, then subsequent growth should also barely vary. If the hormone levels are essentially the same, growth will still be initiated in the penile tissues to basically the same degree. We can say for arguments sake that during sleep your body is only slightly more efficient at growing and dividing cells, but if the hormone levels are the same, it's negligible.

That being said, even if I got 5% less testosterone, since I used to have a decent diet (ate lots of meat, carbs, relatively healthy, didn't eat too much as was a wrestler who was weight concious) and also since I used to do lots of training for wrestling and weights, then I would've made up the 5% testosterone for sure and then some extra as far as GH.

Also the improved sleep efficiency due to training would mean I got more sleep cycles out of the 7 or so hours I'd often sleep.

So with these factors as above,

What would you say?


ps: What kind of complex test could determine this.

Finally: There was a study where human fetal penises are grafted onto animals, and given low, normal and super doses of test. There was about a 6.9cm total for normal test and 7.3 for super test samples. But the study fails to say how much test was given to the normal test samples, but it does mention 50mg Test to the super test samples:


See relevant studies, and give me your final verdict:

The effect of testosterone on androgen receptors and human penile growth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9258152 -


Critical androgen-sensitive periods of rat penis and clitoris development
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2816361/
(suggests that testosterone levels being increased postnatally will only accelerate penile growth and not make it go past its predetermined maximum potential size)

"Finally, additional androgen exposure at any age in rats cannot enhance ultimate penile length, although it can advance growth postnatally towards its predetermined maximum. The latter is determined in utero by unknown androgen-independent factors, but sufficient androgen action (in the right time windows) is necessary to achieve this potential."


Finally an interesting thread with a similar OP as myself,

https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/steroid...-m5245089.aspx

[Big Al]

As far as androgens, one study showed sleeping from 8 hours to 5 hours, only reduced testosterone by 10%. In my case sleeping only 1.25 hours less than average means its barely a 5% reduction in testosterone.

Another study showed, and GH that is lost through inadequate sleep, is actually released during the day, such that the GH level would be what it would've otherwise been with proper sleep.

As far as sleep being a vehicle for growth, allowing cells to grow and divide, im not sure that cells will grow and divide much more efficiently during sleep, than they would during waking hours. If hormone levels barely vary even with a significant loss of sleep time, then subsequent growth should also barely vary. If the hormone levels are essentially the same, growth will still be initiated in the penile tissues to basically the same degree. We can say for arguments sake that during sleep your body is only slightly more efficient at growing and dividing cells, but if the hormone levels are the same, it's negligible.

That being said, even if I got 5% less testosterone, since I used to have a decent diet (ate lots of meat, carbs, relatively healthy, didn't eat too much as was a wrestler who was weight concious) and also since I used to do lots of training for wrestling and weights, then I would've made up the 5% testosterone for sure and then some extra as far as GH.

Also the improved sleep efficiency due to training would mean I got more sleep cycles out of the 7 or so hours I'd often sleep.

So with these factors as above,

What would you say?


ps: What kind of complex test could determine this.

Finally: There was a study where human fetal penises are grafted onto animals, and given low, normal and super doses of test. There was about a 6.9cm total for normal test and 7.3 for super test samples. But the study fails to say how much test was given to the normal test samples, but it does mention 50mg Test to the super test samples:


See relevant studies, and give me your final verdict:

The effect of testosterone on androgen receptors and human penile growth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9258152 -


Critical androgen-sensitive periods of rat penis and clitoris development
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2816361/
(suggests that testosterone levels being increased postnatally will only accelerate penile growth and not make it go past its predetermined maximum potential size)

"Finally, additional androgen exposure at any age in rats cannot enhance ultimate penile length, although it can advance growth postnatally towards its predetermined maximum. The latter is determined in utero by unknown androgen-independent factors, but sufficient androgen action (in the right time windows) is necessary to achieve this potential."


Finally an interesting thread with a similar OP as myself,

https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/steroid...-m5245089.aspx

If the study was short it may not have taken into account the effects of long term sleep deprivation.

I'd say what's past is past It's likely most of us didn't do all we could to maximize our growth potential in our youth but you can do your best now to ensure you're maximizing your current potential.