The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory

[Iguana]

When your girth is greater in the semi-erect state, is your length smaller, larger, or the same than it is when you're in erect state?

Great question! I don't think I have ever done a comparison. It was just something I have observed and noted others talking about. This one may be nothing more than a reshaping of the tunica. Measuing both ways should clear this one up.

...I've come to the belief that every reaction the penis gives off (or every phsyilogical response) can be interpeted in one way or another as a sign of what to focus on. I'm just not sure how.

Absolutely, I think the majority of what we have proposed here can be tested and hopefully confirmed or debunked. What really gives me great confidence that we are on to something is that this theory explains so many currently unexplained PE related phenomenon. It might be we need to enlist some volunteers to run some "trial" routines.

In the meantime, one question that bothers me is on the topic of length and girth:

• What's the role of smooth muscle growth in relation to length growth? How about girth growth?
• What's the role of tunica growth in relation to length growth? How about girth growth?

I think I may have given the wrong impression concerning this topic. I'm certainly no expert but let me clarify what I believe to be true.

The smooth muscle data we have comes from tests and observations on vascular smooth muscle. In these reports SM was reported to have generated/regenerated in both directions. The data on angiogenesis shows that entire arterial bypasses can take place from SM growth. So, the data shows the potential for growth in many directions is there.

I think the same potential exist for the tunica. It seems both tissue types have the ability to grow and expand in any direction and that neither alone is solely responsible for growth in a particular direction. I believe it is our mechanical manipulation that dictates how or in what direction we get growth. For instance, if you do nothing but stretch you most likely will gain MORE length. That is not to say you won't gain SOME girth. Some guys have gotten length gains from clamping. Neither tissue is limited in which direction it can grow. We "coax" it to grow in a particular direction by our choice of exercises.

...
So far, we've kind of assumed that SM growth equals girth growth, and tunica growth equals length growth. There is no reason to believe this assumption (or at least the way I see it), and in fact SM growth has to play some type of role in length growth, and vice versa.

remek, I totally agree here, I hope I haven't given the impression that I assume this. Definitely not the case!

[remek]

Great question! I don't think I have ever done a comparison. It was just something I have observed and noted others talking about. This one may be nothing more than a reshaping of the tunica. Measuing both ways should clear this one up.

Let me know what you come with. I'm excited to learn about this, as I've heard about it but never experienced it.

I think I may have given the wrong impression concerning this topic. I'm certainly no expert but let me clarify what I believe to be true.

The smooth muscle data we have comes from tests and observations on vascular smooth muscle. In these reports SM was reported to have generated/regenerated in both directions. The data on angiogenesis shows that entire arterial bypasses can take place from SM growth. So, the data shows the potential for growth in many directions is there.

I think the same potential exist for the tunica. It seems both tissue types have the ability to grow and expand in any direction and that neither alone is solely responsible for growth in a particular direction. I believe it is our mechanical manipulation that dictates how or in what direction we get growth. For instance, if you do nothing but stretch you most likely will gain MORE length. That is not to say you won't gain SOME girth. Some guys have gotten length gains from clamping. Neither tissue is limited in which direction it can grow. We "coax" it to grow in a particular direction by our choice of exercises.

After some consideration, I think you hit the nail on the head here, and you've persuaded me towards your side. I've been thinking, and if I may, I'll add a little more to this explanation. After considering this for a bit, here is the way I currently see it:

• When we are stretching/hanging/or using an ADS, we are stretching both the SM and the tunica. However, it would appear that the tunica is probably taking the blunt of the stress, as it is the tissues closest to the point of origin. In other words, the tunica is on the outer layers of the penis, the smooth muscle is on the inner layers, and hanging/stretching is generated closer towards the outer layers. Meaning, the hanger is on the outside of the penis, pulling the tunica. (Physics)
• Conversely, when we are clamping/pumping/or squeezing presure from the inside, we are also providing pressure on both the SM and the tunica. However, the smooth muscle is probably taking the blunt of the stress as it is the tissue closest to the point of origin. In this case, the pressure is coming from the inside (from a rapid influx of blood flow), and directly causing smooth muscle to expand, which indirectly causes the tunica to expand.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here, but if we're right, this could explain why stretching provides length and why squeezing provides girth.

It could also explain why clamping sometimes provides length and stretching sometimes provides girth (both of which have been reported by several men).

An an ending note, I'd like to say this thread has grown with tons of new information - ideas that have been floating around in my head for a while, but no one was around to help me bring them out!

Anyway, I feel bad for the poor sap who has to sum all this information up

[Iguana]

Let me know what you come with. I'm excited to learn about this, as I've heard about it but never experienced it.

Will do! This is very puzzling and should definitely be investigated furter.

After considering this for a bit, here is the way I currently see it:

• When we are stretching/hanging/or using an ADS, we are stretching both the SM and the tunica. However, it would appear that the tunica is probably taking the blunt of the stress, as it is the tissues closest to the point of origin. In other words, the tunica is on the outer layers of the penis, the smooth muscle is on the inner layers, and hanging/stretching is generated closer towards the outer layers. Meaning, the hanger is on the outside of the penis, pulling the tunica. (Physics)
• Conversely, when we are clamping/pumping/or squeezing presure from the inside, we are also providing pressure on both the SM and the tunica. However, the smooth muscle is probably taking the blunt of the stress as it is the tissue closest to the point of origin. In this case, the pressure is coming from the inside (from a rapid influx of blood flow), and directly causing smooth muscle to expand, which indirectly causes the tunica to expand.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here, but if we're right, this could explain why stretching provides length and why squeezing provides girth.

It could also explain why clamping sometimes provides length and stretching sometimes provides girth (both of which have been reported by several men).

ABSOLUTELY!!! Very well said! We are not only on the same page on this but the same paragraph, sentence!

Would it not also make sense that the tissue receiving the blunt of the stress would develop more rapidly,
creating the tissue indicators we have outlined?

[remek]

Would it not also make sense that the tissue receiving the blunt of the stress would develop more rapidly,
creating the tissue indicators we have outlined?

So it's adjourned - we completely agree.

I think the best direction to take this thread now is to add a brief explanation under the points in this post, explaining why we think each point is in the section that it is. Anyone here can feel free to build upon the explanations or add their own.

Point 1:

SM limiting factor: BPFSL is .25" or greater than BPEL. This, in theory, essentially means that the length of the penis can extend further than an erection is allowing it to. The cause of an erection is the smooth muscle, so it is probably the limiting factor here. Also, the tunica is no doubt the part of the penis that determines how far the penis can be stretched. So, with this in mind, the tunica is stretched further than an erection, so it can't be the limiting factor to BPEL gains.

[Iguana]

remek, I took the liberty of adding your most excellent explanation under the original post. It should be easier if we keep the summary in one spot.

Now, only 10 or 12 more to go!

[Iguana]

Here is another idea I had proposed to remek in a PM and wanted to throw out here for discussion.

One of the first things new guys ask is "Are gains permanent?" Then we give them the spiel about "cementing" which basically we have understood to mean, keep exercising the tissue until the gains become permanent. I don't know if anyone has ever questioned or examined why cementing works and what exactly happens to the tissue that keeps gains from disappearing. It may be noted, that even after seriously "cementing" gains, some guys still loose a little if they stop PE completely. So, that being said, we can conclude that some type of atrophy or shrinkage takes places after stopping PE exercises. What causes this shrinkage?

Logically, if the body is forced to adapt due to exposure to a new stimulus, such as stress, and this stimulus is removed, the tendency is for it to want to return to the previous state before it was forced to adapt. This has been shown in many other areas (i.e. bodybuilding.) It has been theorized in this thread that if you stop PEing the smooth muscle in the penis might atrophy causing a loss of gains. This is valid reasoning. Scientific data supports the notion that smooth muscle can atrophy. SO - Likewise, could it be that if you made some good length gains and didn't work to fill the extra tunica space with SM; then stopped PEing, the tunica, lacking sufficient internal pressure to remain stretched out, could also atrophy back to the threshold of where the SM pressure is? This is assuming that the tunica has not been completely restructured by plastic deformation and that there is sufficient elastin remaining in the tunica to recoil it. On the other hand, if you stretched out the tunica and then develeoped the necessary smooth muscle to "fill in the gap" the added SM tissue could prevent the complete atrophy of the tunica?

If the SM can atrophy, why not the tunica? This could also help explain why lost gains return quickly? It could also help explain why EQ quality improves during a break - an "equalizing" of the tissues takes place. Meaning if the tunica is stretched beyond the capacity for SM to fill it, erections would be soft and weak. During a break tunica atrophy could reduce the excess space and improved erection quality?

Thoughts?

[remek]

remek, I took the liberty of adding your most excellent explanation under the original post. It should be easier if we keep the summary in one spot.

Great idea!

[remek]

Iguana: The theory makes sense, but I'm lost on one part: If the tunica is stretched beyond the smooth muscle's limit already, wouldn't the penis only be as long as the smooth muscle limit is allowing it to be? Or at least with the theory we have accumulated in this thread?

[Iguana]

OK -This is my thinking:

According to the theory, if your tunica is not actively being stretched properly, but you are continuing to build smooth muscle, your erections will get rock hard. The added smooth muscle tissue, tightly constricted by tunica, increases the penile density and rigidity. Now, if we refocus our attention on the tunica and stretch it out, length gains occur. But, because the smooth muscle is no longer tightly constricted it flows easily into the new tunica space giving us new length. But at the same time, because it is no longer tightly condensed, we loose EQ. The erection, although longer, is now softer and much less firm. The goal now would be to refocus on SM to regain the original density and thereby cement the added length. I think if we continue to stay focused on the tunica we may gain a little more length but here is where some guys think they need a break due to poor EQ. They assume the poor EQ means they're over-training, they start decon and loose some length due to atrophy, both SM & tunica. I think if we are giving equal attention and getting results from both tissue types we avoid this situation. But, after we exhaust newbie gains, this seems very difficult to do.

This is not to say that some guys do not over-train or that all loss of EQ is due to this phenomenon. I think those things definitely exist but I think guys sometimes confuse them.

I firmly believe this happened in my case. I gained 3/8" EL in a length based routine and by wearing my Penis-Master 8+ hrs a day. However, I developed poor EQ and my gains slowed way down. Assuming I needed a break I took a long decon. I am 2 1/2 months into it, my EQ has not improved, and I lost most of my length gains. I think if I had refocused on building SM I could have retained my gains and improved my EQ.

I think it's a repetitious balancing act. The process being maximize the SM, stretch out the tunica, repeat.

[remek]

What are your erections like (i.e. how bad is the EQ)? How are they with Levitra?

Do you think the break made you lost both your tunica gains and your smooth muscle gains (hence the reason your erections aren't back to normal)?