Mechanically Activated Stretch Reflex (M.A.I.R) Exercises

[FossilHead]

Second: have you ever seen a relaxed pro bodybuilder? Look at his belly: it will be grotesquely big; the hormones they are injecting cause growth of muscles but also bowels; bowels are similar to smooth muscle of the penis; although this has never been studied, that I know, it is very likely that smooth muscles in the penis also grow in people taking steroids. Neverthless, they don't grow a bigger penis.

Putting this all together, I think I have pretty much proven my point.

Riiiight.
1 + 1 = 3 ?

Extrapolating the "grotesquely big" abdomen of "a relaxed pro bodybuilder" [who I assume you are insinuating takes anabolic steroids] to the individual seeking penile enlargement---- an individual who dares consider the aspect that increased penile smooth muscle might play in seeking such additional size---- is supposed to be something that substantially strengthens your argument?

Interesting.

Please also share what you believe happens when said bodybuilder stops using the "hormones" if you will.......... with respect to both the gut and skeletal muscle

[INS]

I have several counterproofs of that: first, think to when you clamp; does your penis grows in diameter above the clamped area? I suppose it does, at least a bit; has your smooth muscle grown? No. It is the mechanical force (increased pressure) stretching more the tunica, the existing smooth muscle has no issue stretching more witout any need to grow, the constraints is the tunica, which, actually, has exactly that function : to protect corpora cavernosa.

You apply a supraphysiological pressure and stress the penis beyond it's physiological limits. It's not the normal level of pressure. Of course your dick can expand that much. Pumpers see it as well when they "pack the tube". That is irrelevant to my point.

Second: have you ever seen a relaxed pro bodybuilder? Look at his belly: it will be grotesquely big; the hormones they are injecting cause growth of muscles but also bowels; bowels are similar to smooth muscle of the penis; although this has never been studied, that I know, it is very likely that smooth muscles in the penis also grow in people taking steroids. Neverthless, they don't grow a bigger penis.

They do get more turgid, however. I do know cases where bodybuilers taking steroids have had gains in that direction (perhaps eq, perhaps other). Anyway, it really isn't quite relevant. I'm arguing that there should be a proportionate increase of tunica and other connective structures to the smooth muscle. If tunica only increases, then perhaps the erection might not be as turgid, despite size increments. If smc only increases, then there wouldn't be a size gain.

You're only arguing one aspect, using this point.

Another piece of the puzzle: people who develop megaphallus as a consequence of priapism, often become impotent; neverthless, their penis size is gigantic. This happens because the tunica albuginea has been stretched for a prolonged, continued time, so growing; adversely, the smooth muscle is generally degenerated and become inelastic. Neverthless, their penis size is gigantic, and there is no much difference in size between flaccid and erect, because the smooth muscle, having become scar-like tissue, is always stretching the grown tunica.

Okay here's my point.

Consider these aspects: Compliance, Physiological pressure possible

Compliance= The amount a tissue changes in size with respect to a certain amount of pressure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_(physiology)

Physiological pressure= The amount of pressure the penis has under physiological conditions (aka no clamps, no pumps, no viagra)

Now let me draw you a simplistic model of the penis.
Consider that there's only 1 cavernosa in this hypothetical penis, covered with tunica.
There is a central artery running through this cavernosa. It sends small branches to all the "caves" of the penis made primarily of smooth muscle. These caves drain out into small tributaries of veins, which join to form a larger vein, which exits the penis from the dorsal side. This is sort of similar to alveoli (not exactly, just trying a visual)

Under non aroused conditions, the smooth muscles are contracted, and have some tone. Blood enters these caves or spheres or "grapes" or whatever through the central artery, and they drain normally into the veins.

Now, an arousal signal is sent:

What happens is the smooth muscles relax. The sizes of the caves increase and get filled with blood. The caves stretch a bit as well. As the caves expand, the entire cavernous tube expands. As this happens, it puts pressure on the dorsal vein against the tunica, which occludes the blood flow. As this happens, the caves are impeded from draining fully, and thus they become pressurized, making the entire hypothetical penis turgid.


You with me?

Okay, now lets increase the size of the tunica alone and make it a bit bigger.

Now, when the smooth muscles of the caves, relax, after getting to their previous point of expansion, they'd be stretching a bit more. This is where the COMPLIANCE comes into place

As they're forced to stretch more than before to fill the tunica, they experience a bit more resistance than prior, since they're stretched beyond their previous physiological limits. If these caves are prevented from expanding as much, there isn't enough force put on the dorsal vein.

Net force on dorsal vein prior= Pressure of blood-elastic recoil of smooth muscles (S1)-elastic recoil of tunica(TI)

Net force on dorsal vein after expansion= Pressure of blood-elastic recoil of Smooth Muscles (S2)- Tunica recoil (T1)


S2>S1. Thus, the amount of force on the dorsal vein would be less.

Thus, the person develops veno occlusion disorder, or venous leak, which may be mild, but it'd be there, and the erection wouldn't be as turgid.

Without either the size or the number of the smooth muscle increasing, it won't be as good

[INS]

Though, i will admit, that the surgery posts seem pretty cool. I wonder if during the period of recuperation, the amount of smooth muscle may have increased or not.

The only seemed to have modified the tunica, but I'd like a more detailed paper on this.

[marinera]

There should be the full paper, INS. The smooth muscle can only relax allowing more blood to go into, but don't allow more pressure; what will happens adding more smooth muscle without enlarging the tunica is that they will be able to relax ony partially.

The fact that pumpers experience expansion too validate my point, or are you saying that they grow more smooth muscle in a matter of minutes?

No idea of what you are trying to argue with the link to compliance. FYI, in people with long time ED not only the smooth muscle, but pretty much everything in the penis undergoes structural changes, veins, nerves, tunica albuginea, hell, even BC muscle get atrophied. Structural changes in tunica albuginea seems actually to have a major role in the development of ED and venous leakage, impairing the veno-occlusive mechanism, see for example:

Structural alterations in the tunica albuginea of the penis: impact of Peyronie's disease, ageing and impotence. - PubMed - NCBI

Study of the changes in collagen of the tunica albuginea in venogenic impotence and Peyronie's disease. - PubMed - NCBI

On the pathogenesis of penile venous leakage: role of the tunica albuginea


But in healthy males, growing any more veins, BC muscle or whatever, will do nothing for size. Only enlarging the tunica will do the trick, and enlarging the tunica alone is enough to give a bigger size.

[marinera]

Riiiight.
1 + 1 = 3 ?
...

For you maybe.

to the individual seeking penile enlargement-- ...

Yes, I am insinuating that pro bodybuilders take steroids. You wouldn't ever guessed, eh?

Riiiight.
....
Please also share what you believe happens when said bodybuilder stops using the "hormones" if you will.......... with respect to both the gut and skeletal muscle

Bodybuilders. Many, not just one. It is not a single case. When they stop taking steroids theirs growth fade away. A big part of that is intracellular water anyway.

If you want to know some other basic facts of life feel free to ask.

[INS]

There should be the full paper, INS. The smooth muscle can only relax allowing more blood to go into, but don't allow more pressure; what will happens adding more smooth muscle without enlarging the tunica is that they will be able to relax ony partially.

I already outlined it in my previous post. It doesn't affect the total pressure, yes, but the compliance of the caves matter.

Also, I can only find the abstracts, not the entire paper and how the surgery was done. Like I said, the patients could have mild venous leak as well. I want to see those tests done.

The fact that pumpers experience expansion too validate my point, or are you saying that they grow more smooth muscle in a matter of minutes?

I addressed this. I clearly made the distinction between supraphyiological and physiological pressures in my previous post. Supraphyiological pressures being: Pumps, viagra, clamps etc. Under physiological pressures, a certain amount of expansion of the smooth muscle caves happen.

No idea of what you are trying to argue with the link to compliance.

Then read my post again. I put it very very clearly.

FYI, in people with long time ED not only the smooth muscle, but pretty much everything in the penis undergoes structural changes, veins, nerves, tunica albuginea, hell, even BC muscle get atrophied. Structural changes in tunica albuginea seems actually to have a major role in the development of ED and venous leakage, impairing the veno-occlusive mechanism, see for example:

Structural alterations in the tunica albuginea of the penis: impact of Peyronie's disease, ageing and impotence. - PubMed - NCBI

Study of the changes in collagen of the tunica albuginea in venogenic impotence and Peyronie's disease. - PubMed - NCBI

On the pathogenesis of penile venous leakage: role of the tunica albuginea

Yes, I am aware of this.

[FossilHead]

If you want to know some other basic facts of life feel free to ask.

You come on here with all this knowledge to share, yet when someone confronts you on your generalities and awkward apples-to-oranges comparisons, you reply with an asinine remark.

Was that supposed to be funny?
Or make me change my mind, and suddenly think all you have said suddenly has merit?


As a former bodybuilder, I know you're FOS.
As a PE'er, I think you are spreading your opinion as fact, or simply vomiting things you have heard/read back onto this thread.
And as a mature and knowledgeable individual, I believe you are a pup.

[INS]

Guys, pls dont fight. We don't want this thread to get locked up as well. Take it elsewhere.

Also I have a question: How exactly does the structure of the tunica changing in ED affect it's ability to occlude the venous drainage? Isn't it's primary purpose simply supposed to be relatively non compliant and less "giving" so that the expansion of the cavernosa puts pressure on the veins and closes them?

[Marlon LGHanger]

Riiiight.
1 + 1 = 3 ?

Extrapolating the "grotesquely big" abdomen of "a relaxed pro bodybuilder" [who I assume you are insinuating takes anabolic steroids] to the individual seeking penile enlargement---- an individual who dares consider the aspect that increased penile smooth muscle might play in seeking such additional size---- is supposed to be something that substantially strengthens your argument?

Interesting.

Please also share what you believe happens when said bodybuilder stops using the "hormones" if you will.......... with respect to both the gut and skeletal muscle

The distended abdomens of today's professional bodybuilder isn't from using anabolic steroids. It's from using growth hormone is excessive amounts. Former Oakland Raider Lyle Alzado didn't die from steroid abuse, he died from using 10x the recommended amount of growth hormone.

[Tamora]

For you maybe.



Yes, I am insinuating that pro bodybuilders take steroids. You wouldn't ever guessed, eh?


Bodybuilders. Many, not just one. It is not a single case. When they stop taking steroids theirs growth fade away. A big part of that is intracellular water anyway.

If you want to know some other basic facts of life feel free to ask.

Okay Marinera...you may be able to get away with those kind of condescending remarks as a moderator on that other site of yours...but not here...not on my watch!

Do not turn this thread into a slanging match of insulting comments...pretty please with a cherry on top!

It has been noted and documented!