Venous leak is a misnomer

[Pegasus]

Yes this stems from the research papers i read that basically all isolated the ischiocavernosus muscle as the one who has a key role un tumescence.Again all the pelvic muscles are connected,especially the levator ani.That is why when a person kegels he will almost instantly feel his anus tighten-i have posted about the connection between the external anal sphincter and the ischiocavernosus.

There seems though little research on the actual training of the ic specifically

[DickerSchwanz]

PE forums are way ahead on all of this..
The basic functions of the muscles are known. The rest is 1+1.

A cramping bulbocavernosus muscle will mess with the IC muscle. (IC can not work properly as the BC overrides it)
Balance, control, strength are needed.

HFrec, People get angry at calling VL a b.s. diagnosis cause it's much harder to find a way to train the PF than getting the doc do some operation while asleep.

Remember.. Veins are there to leak blood out of organs..

[Dodot007]

https://youtu.be/Lle3kHGjJ6c is it right way how to train ic muscle?

[Pegasus]

Ok so we are going with, little in the way of really direct studies or really direct scientific evidence, but there is some and it makes a lot of sense physically . A lot of indirect science supporting also.

[Thick_Unit]

I completely agree with you that venous leak is a bullshit diagnosis, ive been saying it for years and usually somone ends up getting angry with me for saying it. With a bit of education anyone can understand that the venous leak theory just does make sense when you learn how the pelvic floor works. Its simply a symptom of pelvic floor dysfunction.

Its a shame we have to work this stuff out for ourselves but unfortunately urology is very much still in the dark ages and its full of incompetent dipshit doctors.

Diet is the issue. sugar standard american death diet..


Erectile dysfunction is a punishment by nature for eating fruits and vegetables....

meat is your natural diet ....

i went from 80% fruits and vegetables. to 80% animal food based diet ...

100% hardness just after a couple of weeks... only 3 times out of 56 days, it was hard to get "hard"...


most people would be like oh shit thats a lot of cholesterol, after a bit of research every cell in the body is made from it including ALL hormones ..



The bigger question is why do doctors want us to avoid it like the plague? The answer to that is the can't make money off you if your not sick...

it pretty much cures most mental issues (i.e depression)and boosts your testosterone.. boosted to steroid level i.e 700 range...


I bet everyone is still brainwashed from the food pyramid poster shown in school. you trust this as being the "truth"..

[Pegasus]

https://www.pegym.com/forums/erectil...le-issues.html

[Robson1444]

There seems though little research on the actual training of the ic specifically

No,in one of the articles i linked the pelvic floor training is described as seeing your penis base get pulled inside-that is basically activation of the ischiocavernosus,and also :



1) Pelvic-Floor Muscle Rehabilitation in Erectile Dysfunction and Premature Ejaculation

https://academic.oup.com/ptj/article/94/12/1731/2741899 ► IC training improved erectile dysfunction in 87% of patients ► Says that the IC is best trained erect ► Also says that the IC gets activated by glans pressure

Interesting quotes: "Increasing the strength of a striated muscle implies a work of this muscle against a resistance. Regarding the ICM, the only resistance is the pressure in the CC. The treatment, therefore, should be carried out in full erection when the CC is filled"

"The above physiological considerations suggest that coital penile rigidity dysfunction and possibly PE may be partly due to ICM atrophy and that they may be treated by rehabilitation intervention"


"Therefore, coital penile rigidity is achieved according to the following sequence: coital movement → glans pressure variations → ICR triggering → ICM contractions → SS ICP → penile rigidity." (Also supported by: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8352579/)



3) The role of biofeedback in the rehabilitation of veno-occlusive erectile dysfunction https://link.springer.com/content/pd...61X.147362.pdf ► Shows that pelvic muscle training can cure venous leak -- levator/IC and more



Interesting quotes: "Pelviperineal muscles’ visual pressure biofeedback rehabilitation is effective, inexpensive, noninvasive, safe, and easily applicable in the treatment of venogenic ED"


"The patient performed 10 maximal muscle contractions: each lasted for 10 s with a 5-s rest in between. The patient was able to visualize and quantify his muscle contractions. The sessions were performed three times weekly for 3 months. [They trained the] pelviperineal muscles (levator ani, external anal sphincter, ischiocavernosus muscle, bulbospongiosus muscle, superficial transverses perineal muscles, deep transverses perineal muscles, and sphincter urethrae)"



4) Longterm results in the conservative treatment of erectile dysfunction of venous etiology using an external ischiocavernosus stimulator (EIS) https://publikationen.sulb.uni-saarl...s_Final_X3.pdf (German; but see page 6 for english abstract)
► Proves that IC training (manually or even better electrical) improves erection rigidity and duration and is even better than venous leak surgery


Interesting quotes: "As evidenced by the reported results, the external ischiocavernosus stimulation is an effective conservative treatment option in erectile dysfunction of venous etiology"

See also this for another study on the used device: https://www.mtm-med.com/up/download/...l%20paper2.pdf

[Dodot007]

How the IC Muscle work is it concious or unconcious?

[Pegasus]

It can be made conscious.

[Pegasus]

No,in one of the articles i linked the pelvic floor training is described as seeing your penis base get pulled inside-that is basically activation of the ischiocavernosus,and also :



1) Pelvic-Floor Muscle Rehabilitation in Erectile Dysfunction and Premature Ejaculation

https://academic.oup.com/ptj/article/94/12/1731/2741899 ► IC training improved erectile dysfunction in 87% of patients ► Says that the IC is best trained erect ► Also says that the IC gets activated by glans pressure

Interesting quotes: "Increasing the strength of a striated muscle implies a work of this muscle against a resistance. Regarding the ICM, the only resistance is the pressure in the CC. The treatment, therefore, should be carried out in full erection when the CC is filled"

"The above physiological considerations suggest that coital penile rigidity dysfunction and possibly PE may be partly due to ICM atrophy and that they may be treated by rehabilitation intervention"


"Therefore, coital penile rigidity is achieved according to the following sequence: coital movement → glans pressure variations → ICR triggering → ICM contractions → SS ICP → penile rigidity." (Also supported by: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8352579/)



3) The role of biofeedback in the rehabilitation of veno-occlusive erectile dysfunction https://link.springer.com/content/pd...61X.147362.pdf ► Shows that pelvic muscle training can cure venous leak -- levator/IC and more



Interesting quotes: "Pelviperineal muscles’ visual pressure biofeedback rehabilitation is effective, inexpensive, noninvasive, safe, and easily applicable in the treatment of venogenic ED"


"The patient performed 10 maximal muscle contractions: each lasted for 10 s with a 5-s rest in between. The patient was able to visualize and quantify his muscle contractions. The sessions were performed three times weekly for 3 months. [They trained the] pelviperineal muscles (levator ani, external anal sphincter, ischiocavernosus muscle, bulbospongiosus muscle, superficial transverses perineal muscles, deep transverses perineal muscles, and sphincter urethrae)"



4) Longterm results in the conservative treatment of erectile dysfunction of venous etiology using an external ischiocavernosus stimulator (EIS) https://publikationen.sulb.uni-saarl...s_Final_X3.pdf (German; but see page 6 for english abstract)
► Proves that IC training (manually or even better electrical) improves erection rigidity and duration and is even better than venous leak surgery


Interesting quotes: "As evidenced by the reported results, the external ischiocavernosus stimulation is an effective conservative treatment option in erectile dysfunction of venous etiology"

See also this for another study on the used device: https://www.mtm-med.com/up/download/...l%20paper2.pdf

I like it for our purposes this is enough /