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  • Are devices advanced or not?

    I would like to start a discussion with members and device representative on whether devices should be considered advanced or not. Join in with your opinions and the reasoning behind it.

    I see it quite often here that devices are considered advanced and a beginner should condition their penis with a manual routine first. I disagree with this and here is my reasoning why.

    1. Stretching or expanding your dick is just that no matter how it’s done. With any method of PE it’s safe AS LONG AS IT’S DONE CORRECTLY WITH THE RECOMMENDED STARTUP AND CONDITIONING PERIOD FOR THE METHOD YOU ARE USING. If someone wants to start off with higher weights, maximum vacuum pressure, maximum extender tension and so on then risk of injury is high. In the same regard if someone wants to start off with bundled stretching and ULIs then the risk of injury is also high. Any method has its conditioning period.
    2. There have been reputable studies using extenders where the participants had no prior PE experience and there was not a single injury reported.
    3. PEgym now has an extender that they are selling and I have not seen any disclaimer or advice that a beginner must condition their penis with a manual routine before using it.
    4. There are several articles here on devices and again there is no warning that a beginner should start off with a manual routine first.
    5. Let’s take hanging for example. If a beginner was to start off with the JP90 first he would have built up some pretty good tension by the end of the 90 days. Figuring that he can handle the amount of tension and time where he left off with the manual routine he could add enough weight to equal it. He has now put himself at a higher risk of injury and it’s not because of the tension of the weight, it’s because he has not conditioned his penis to the hanger attachment at the higher weight. He needs to start off at a lower weight/tension to condition to the attachment of the hanger. Why not start off with hanging at the lower weight/tension and work your way up to condition both at the same time?
    6. There are tons of these devices sold every year and the PEgym members that purchase one represents only a small portion of the total amount sold. The vast majority of these devices are sold to guys with no prior PE experience. If the risk of injury was high without conditioning with a manual routine first then I’m sure these device manufactures would not have been is business very long. None of these device manufacturers and their representatives recommends doing a manual conditioning routine first.
    7. I started off with the JP90 but within a month I started hanging. The reason I waited that long is because I wanted to do my research and know what I was doing first. Knowledge is key for any method of PE. Just look in the Penile Anomalies and Injuries forum and you will see plenty of injuries with both manual and devices because they didn’t know the proper way to get started off and condition, didn’t know what they were doing and/or became overzealous in hopes of making fast gains. The bottom line is that you just need to use your head with safety and knowledge being a priority.


    OK...your turn.
    To totally satisfy a woman sexually is not about having a large penis, it's about being a good lover.

  • #2
    IMO, if one is capable then they should test out manual exercises first before attempting device based training. This is efficient from a cost-based perspective as well as results-based.

    From https://www.pegym.com/forums/penis-d...html#post36835 :

    There are pros and cons to each method. Here are some advantages and disadvantages to the various methods:

    Extenders-

    Pros:
    -You know exactly how much tension is being generated
    -Workout is "hands free"
    -Progress is easy to track and forecast
    -Can be worn with certain clothes

    Cons:
    -Requires constant supervision
    -Maximum tension possible is very light
    -Must be worn for many total hours to see results
    -Can be uncomfortable without adequate padding

    Weight hangers-

    Pros:
    -Workout is "hands free"
    -Very high tension is possible
    -You know exactly how much tension is being generated

    Cons:
    -Injuries more common with this method
    -Often uncomfortable even with adequate padding
    -Cannot be done in public

    Manual exercises-
    Pros:
    -Very convenient
    -Very high tension is possible
    -Tension level is easily adjustable
    -The most fluid of all methods

    Cons:
    -Tension is difficult to measure- must use estimates
    -Cannot be done in public
    -Must have relatively strong hands for hard or long workouts

    Please feel free to add to this list

    My personal preferences favor manual exercises, although each method is effective when performed correctly.
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    • #3
      I agree that starting off with a manual routine is a great no cost way of getting started off to see if PE is going to be right for them. However if someone chooses to go the route of starting off with a device then I don't see a problem with it. As you said, as long as it's performed correctly.

      Thanks for the pros and cons of each method, it's good information for anyone trying to decide which method they would like to start off with.

      The question still remains though, are devices advanced or not? Is a manual conditioning routine required before attempting devices? What's your opinion Big Al?
      Cavalier
      Retired Super Moderator
      Member of the Month Feb 2015
      PEGym Hero
      Last edited by Cavalier; 11-07-2018, 03:37 PM.
      To totally satisfy a woman sexually is not about having a large penis, it's about being a good lover.

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      • #4
        It has been mentioned many times that each guys dick responds differently to PE methods. Though some guy’s dick is capable of going straight into a Hanging or extending routine with out pre conditioning, another guy’s dick can easily be injured if not conditioned first. As a forum for guy’s with all kinds of dicks we need to take a conservative approach and recommend the least risky way to make gains.

        It is up to the individual to decide if his dick is strong enough to reduce or eliminate the recommended preconditioning. I personally decided to begin pumping without preconditioning but followed the recommendations from experienced pumpers to start slowly and build up to a full 20 minute session at or below 5 hg. However, It took me nine months until I started to make measurable gains. Perhaps, I would have gained more quickly had I conditioned my dick first.
        Valued Member of 12+ years at the PEGym
        12/'09 (start) NBP EL - 4.5, EG - 4.4
        12/11 NBPEL - 5.1, MSEG - 5
        01/13 NBPEL - 5.35, MSEG - 5.1
        01/14 NBPEL - 5.35, MSEG - 5.25
        01/16 NBPEL - 5.4, MSEG - 5.5
        Fat Pad = 1+/-

        Real cars have two seats. Everything else is a bus.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cavalier View Post
          I agree that starting off with a manual routine is a great no cost way of getting started off to see if PE is going to be right for them. However if someone chooses to go the route of starting off with a device then I don't see a problem with it. As you said, as long as it's performed correctly.

          Thanks for the pros and cons of each method, it's good information for anyone trying to decide which method they would like to start off with.

          The question still remains though, are devices advanced or not? Is a manual conditioning routine required before attempting devices? What's your opinion Big Al?
          Devices can be used for very basic training. The key is to start of with light tension and time- as you would with any new training method.
          Want a FREE Month of Coaching? PM or email me for details- or CLICK HERE

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          • #6
            The more dangerous a technique becomes, the more advanced I would consider it. Not because it's an objectively better routine for gains but because somebody new and overeager could seriously hurt themselves with incorrect use or form. So in that sense I'd consider extenders a beginners level routine. It seems like you'd have a hard time seriously injuring yourself with them just by using common sense and listening to your pain receptors.

            I know I jumped straight into devices without any manual training or conditioning, and have been doing a device only routine ever since. Started out on a noose extender, and quickly moved to a mix of vac hanging/extending. I did however start with very small weights and added more weight very slowly with time as Al just suggested, which I'm sure helped to prevent injuries and maximize my gains. The guides that recommended increasing a pound every week were not designed for what I was doing at all (a Vac Hanging 101 course) and I think I would've seriously overexerted myself and stalled my progress completely by attempting it.
            BPEL-MSEG in inches (fatpad 1.0)
            Jun '16: 6.0 - 5.0 (ballpark)
            Apr '17: 6.5 - 5.3
            Jan '18: 7.0 - 5.4
            Sep '18: 7.5 - 5.5
            Current: 7.8 - 5.6
            Goal__: 8.0 - 5.6 (I'm stuck in a plateau)

            Photos in profile

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MulejuiceMcQuaid View Post
              The more dangerous a technique becomes, the more advanced I would consider it. Not because it's an objectively better routine for gains but because somebody new and overeager could seriously hurt themselves with incorrect use or form. So in that sense I'd consider extenders a beginners level routine. It seems like you'd have a hard time seriously injuring yourself with them just by using common sense and listening to your pain receptors.

              I know I jumped straight into devices without any manual training or conditioning, and have been doing a device only routine ever since. Started out on a noose extender, and quickly moved to a mix of vac hanging/extending. I did however start with very small weights and added more weight very slowly with time as Al just suggested, which I'm sure helped to prevent injuries and maximize my gains. The guides that recommended increasing a pound every week were not designed for what I was doing at all (a Vac Hanging 101 course) and I think I would've seriously overexerted myself and stalled my progress completely by attempting it.
              Yup, it's all about using common sense and listening to what your dick is telling you.
              To totally satisfy a woman sexually is not about having a large penis, it's about being a good lover.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MulejuiceMcQuaid View Post
                The more dangerous a technique becomes, the more advanced I would consider it. Not because it's an objectively better routine for gains but because somebody new and overeager could seriously hurt themselves with incorrect use or form. So in that sense I'd consider extenders a beginners level routine. It seems like you'd have a hard time seriously injuring yourself with them just by using common sense and listening to your pain receptors.

                I know I jumped straight into devices without any manual training or conditioning, and have been doing a device only routine ever since. Started out on a noose extender, and quickly moved to a mix of vac hanging/extending. I did however start with very small weights and added more weight very slowly with time as Al just suggested, which I'm sure helped to prevent injuries and maximize my gains. The guides that recommended increasing a pound every week were not designed for what I was doing at all (a Vac Hanging 101 course) and I think I would've seriously overexerted myself and stalled my progress completely by attempting it.
                What was your vac hanging routine starting out?
                My Work

                ARTICLES:

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by not2big View Post
                  It has been mentioned many times that each guys dick responds differently to PE methods. Though some guy’s dick is capable of going straight into a Hanging or extending routine with out pre conditioning, another guy’s dick can easily be injured if not conditioned first. As a forum for guy’s with all kinds of dicks we need to take a conservative approach and recommend the least risky way to make gains.

                  It is up to the individual to decide if his dick is strong enough to reduce or eliminate the recommended preconditioning. I personally decided to begin pumping without preconditioning but followed the recommendations from experienced pumpers to start slowly and build up to a full 20 minute session at or below 5 hg. However, It took me nine months until I started to make measurable gains. Perhaps, I would have gained more quickly had I conditioned my dick first.
                  Well if a guys dick isn't strong enough can't he be injured just as easily with a manual routine? What is the difference if you start off light with a device or a manual routine? I don't agree with the fact that anyone who "might be easily injured wit a device" is not susceptible to injury with a manual routine. I know that you have been hanging in the past and I will ask you if hanging 2 or 3 lbs for 30 minutes to start off with is anything significant that risks injury? I would guess that most guys starting off with a manual routine are stretching with much more force than that. I know I was with the JP90. How do you explain the fact that there was not a single injury reported with any of the studies that have used extenders? A conditioning period is stating off light and slowly working your way up no matter what method is used. If someone doesn't follow this advice the the risk of injury is high however you want to do it. How hard someone may stretch is not measurable where as the force of a device can be controlled in a safe manor if the proper procedures are followed and listening to what your dick is telling you.
                  Cavalier
                  Retired Super Moderator
                  Member of the Month Feb 2015
                  PEGym Hero
                  Last edited by Cavalier; 11-07-2018, 07:01 PM.
                  To totally satisfy a woman sexually is not about having a large penis, it's about being a good lover.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For me, a major part of conditioning is not just working in and around your unit. There is a huge amount of conditioning of the brain that needs to happen. Takes discipline to work at a conditioning program and be able to accept that this is a long drawn out procedure. To dedicate yourself to daily activities along strict guidelines is a safer alternative than diving into a device or hanging program. How many times have we heard members want to do more, because "that is how you work at the gym body building". So, part of conditioning is the reprogramming of the brain and you combating the inherent want to get results immediately. The need for results immediately is what is dangerous. Recommending an involved conditioning program gives them the belief that they can change things if they take their time. I think that is a good thing.

                    Or you can make fast money hocking a magic pill that gives overnight success. Fortunes are made on guys wanting quick and fast results without putting any effort into it. There is a reason spam is still successful, in that people fall for the quick route instead of the dedicated one.

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                    • #11
                      Interesting perspective ZZ and others.

                      The common thing is personal discipline. Removing the people part of the equation, I'd say the device is much safer because it's much more controlled and predictable. However, looking at the bigger picture (aka human error and fallacy), one must incorporate the mental aspect and thus discipline through manual program may trump.

                      Objectively though, I believe device is controlled and if any thing would be a good tool to condition with through controlled experiments. I.e. 1 hr at x tension makes me feel ..... 2 hr at y tension, twice a week broke my dick. So on and so forth to truly measure your limits
                      I'm just here for a healthier dong (and a lot of girth).
                      Lucian's Log (Healthy Donger Routine)

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                      • #12
                        I would consider hanging with three pounds, pumping at 3 hg for under ten minutes, or extending under 500 gr of tension to be a safe way to begin a PE routine. However, these devices are very tempting to exceed safe limits and can be easily abused which can lead to severe injuries.

                        Yes, Devices, if used properly, can be used to condition your dick. However. they can easily be abused. Controlled studies may indicate lack of injuries from extenders; however, from what I have read on a number of forums, over use of extenders have resulted in severe injuries. In my opinion, manual exercises are less likely to lead to injury and, accordingly, should be the recommended way to start conditioning your dick.
                        not2big
                        Senior Super Moderator
                        PEGym Hero
                        Last edited by not2big; 11-07-2018, 08:58 PM.
                        Valued Member of 12+ years at the PEGym
                        12/'09 (start) NBP EL - 4.5, EG - 4.4
                        12/11 NBPEL - 5.1, MSEG - 5
                        01/13 NBPEL - 5.35, MSEG - 5.1
                        01/14 NBPEL - 5.35, MSEG - 5.25
                        01/16 NBPEL - 5.4, MSEG - 5.5
                        Fat Pad = 1+/-

                        Real cars have two seats. Everything else is a bus.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I Agree with with all of you on this matter. Some are tempted and do become overzealous trying to make fast gains. However it's not the means, it's the mind. If you look in the Penile Anomaly and Injuries forum you will see just as many, if not more, that have injured their self with manual exercising. It is just as likely that manual exercises can be abused just as easily as devices.

                          Maybe the temptation to become overzealous starting off with a device is greater or maybe not. We will never know for sure. Maybe starting off with a deice can hinder the potential gains that can be made or maybe not. Once again we will never know for sure. I think I did very well with very little manual work beforehand. Starting off with a manual routine is a great no cost way yo get into PE to give them a chance to see if they have the discipline, dedication and patience to be successful before investing in a device. Maybe it's a good idea to start off with a structured beginner routine to allow them the time time to do some research on the device before jumping into it. I did that myself for one month. These are all very good points everyone has brought up.


                          I think that one of the biggest reasons some injure their self with a device is that unfortunately there are many knockoff or lower end devices out there that come with no instructions at all. This in itself can be very dangerous if one doesn't do the research, or ask questions, on how to use the device beforehand. However I think most reputable devices will come with a suggested startup program that is safe if followed correctly. This isn't fool proof either. There have been several times I have had to point out to a member not knowing how to get started off with the LG hanger that on the back of the instruction manual is a structured 8 week startup routine that's perfectly safe. On the other hand how many times have we had to point out to a newbie that they should start off with one of the beginner routines that can be found in the START HERE link.

                          To answer my question I think the consensus so far is that the device itself is not advanced. Maybe it's the mindset and discipline that is but I also see guys fail in that area with manual routines also. We all have our preference on the preferred method of PE and opinions on how to get started off. I always point out to a beginner asking how to get started off that they should follow one of the manual beginner routines. Telling a beginner that prefers to get started off with, or may have already purchased, a device that it's advanced and should not be attempted is misleading and false. Perhaps telling them that in your opinion it would be in their best interest to start off with a manual routine first is a better idea.

                          The reason I started this thread is that if anyone wishes to tell a beginner that wants to start off with a device that it's advanced please don't be offended if I tell them that it isn't and will try and help them get started off safely.
                          To totally satisfy a woman sexually is not about having a large penis, it's about being a good lover.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HansTwilight View Post
                            What was your vac hanging routine starting out?
                            I worked up to four pounds fast, but I spent most of my first year in just the four to six pound range, hanging with a pulley for one to two hour sets as often as I could get them in at home. So at that weight I guess I was using it more like an extender than I was a traditional hanging routine.
                            BPEL-MSEG in inches (fatpad 1.0)
                            Jun '16: 6.0 - 5.0 (ballpark)
                            Apr '17: 6.5 - 5.3
                            Jan '18: 7.0 - 5.4
                            Sep '18: 7.5 - 5.5
                            Current: 7.8 - 5.6
                            Goal__: 8.0 - 5.6 (I'm stuck in a plateau)

                            Photos in profile

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is a comprehensive forum that advises on multi levels. To tell a 18 year old to go hang weights from his dick to me is irresponsible. His willy hasn't been in enough "who haws" yet to know how it will react to tension and for that matter pumping pressures. He is just starting out learning that his dick can do things, he doesn't know how to control it. Christ, brush it with a passing glance and he will get a boner - it has a mind of its own. And that mind, in and of itself, clouds thinking when it comes to PE. Leads to kegels when totally erect, Lymph nodes kicking in and showing hard veins, worry, concern and all the other things beginners experience.

                              I think PE is so much more than JP90, so much more than extending, so much more than pumping and so much more than clamping. It is a total mind set that needs discipline up front, coaching to keep on track and a community to encourage when all else seems to fail.

                              Have had decent gains myself, never did JP90, never have extended, never have pumped, never have used any device other than my hands. I did however, ease into it having read these forums for years before joining. Yes, I have come up with my own modified easy program. Am not comfortable sharing as this is unproven and I don't want others to hurt themselves. I gained almost and inch in length and a little over a half inch in girth doing 5 minutes worth of work in the shower in the morning. Have maintained for several years just by edging hard and pushing max EQ and riding that top plateau for hours.

                              So, the father in my wants to guide the younger ones here by the hand and teach them patience and the rewards of not over doing it. Sometimes I win, sometimes we lose. But my advice on Edging Hard I think was a key in a member recently overcoming Pre-E. I know, off topic. If you are teaching someone, give them an established program and walk them through so they understand. You don't give them the keys to the house and say "Have at it" and release them with extenders and pumps and such. Lead them along the way, baby steps, condition them that this is a long process. More chances of success this way than the other way.

                              Just my opinion.

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