The true mechanics of growth and the correct thinking for growth.

[TeoDeles]

OK so the studies you are reading are saying that we have to stretch LIGHT... right?(you said just 1-2 pounds more than the mfsl stop)
So no difference from what my results and what the results of most gainers has shown.
Now does your studies say HOW MUCH VOLUME per day is the optimal?

[BundleUp]

Of course not. That's the main thing to figure out. Mainstream science almost completely dismisses PE, so we're on our own in that regard. But we can put a few clues together and make sense of it.

1. Turtling is bad. I think almost everyone can agree on that. But why? Because collagen will deform just as much in response to compression as it will to tension. So if you spend an hour stretching, and you cause a turtling response that lasts for three hours, you have most likely wasted your time.

2. Collagen will return to its original dimensions as much as possible after the tension has ended. The tension makes it creep outward, and the internal action of the molecular triple helix makes it creep back inward. However:

3. It will seek equilibrium. It won't creep all the way back in because some of the fibers get damaged and therefore can't pull themselves back together as well.

So after the main bout of tension (manual stretching or heavy-ish traction), a lighter traction tension prevents it from doing 1 and 2 because you've given it a new equilibrium. And so it has no choice but to succumb to the new length by filling in with new collagen fibers.

How do we know this works? Because again, this combination is all over the top gainers list. Success leaves clues

[BigO]

TeoDeles,

I see in a reply to me that you thought I was offended and angry.

I thought your initial reply was that of being offended and angry. It is possible that we both took each others reply the wrong way.

Starting fresh here!

I respect t that you put this much time into your theory. Think of my replies as challenging your theory, not attacking.

I believe you are correct in quite a bit of what you say. I also believe that as your PE journey goes forward, you may realize some things are not going to coincide with your theories.

No theory is perfect.

I do believe that your theory has value just as the TGC theory also has value. The theory of creep is another theory you may find of interest.

The best you can do to advance your overall knowledge is to try and understand theories, especially ones that are different than yours and then see what you can take from them.

There is a very good chance you may improve upon your own theories or, in a couple of years you may believe in a completely different theory.

[Squid]

Not a problem. I imagine I'd be fairing far worse trying to write in your language.

I am about a week from 6 months in my Phallosan/plus and am going to measure soon to see if I got any further than the .25 inches I reached about 20 weeks in. I may take a few extra months and try for shorter daily goals as I have been averaging about 10 hours (have done as long as 15 hours several times) a day. I have avoided all other exercises to be able to determine if this particular device and usage created notable results. I do not pay attention to my flaccid length as it will always vary no matter what, so the erect length and thickness will be my only focus. Phallosan seemed to indicate on their site that the more time you put in the better results so since I was willing and able to do the longer sessions I did. But, I'll keep ya'll posted!

English is not my language sorry about that I am doing the best I can.
Yes overtraining can happen by big volume too...

As an example ...
My sweet spot of growth is 3 to 4h in the extender... ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS when I was going for more hours , my MFSL was becoming shorter and my dick flaccid was suffering from stiffness.
The sweet spot is different from person to person though. Its all about how sensitive the protective mechanism is.

[TeoDeles]

TeoDeles,


I believe you are correct in quite a bit of what you say. I also believe that as your PE journey goes forward, you may realize some things are not going to coincide with your theories.
There is a very good chance you may improve upon your own theories or, in a couple of years you may believe in a completely different theory.

Well I have already meet my length and girth goal(the girth is surpased) so I don t want to gain more in purpose.
I ll continue doing 3-4h of extending at 600grams and jelqing 2on/1off in order to maintain my new size but my journey has shown me that this exact program has given all the gains I have...so I may gain more by default.
Every time I was doing more than this program ( more hours in extender or bigger tension in extender or both , or inducing manuals before and/or after my extending sessions or big intensity of manuals and big intensity of jelqing followed or not followed by 2-3h of keeping my dick extended to supposingly heal in a stretched state or air pumping or bathmate) my gains was coming into a complete halt and my flaccid size was becoming 24/7 like a stiff little shit.
My differences in my flaccid is huge when it comes to correct training and overtraining.
When I am doing correct training now and all of the periods I have gained my non bone pressed flaccid is about 10cmX12cm and when I am overtraining and these periods I gain nothing my flaccid size was becoming like 4cmX9cm.
You see the difference is huge... so I know exactly when my program is offering gains and when not.
After all 2 years of no gains is not a limited study....
Also 3 months of gains , interuped by 2 years of no gains and then going back to less is more and sparking new growth is not luck... its a clear sighn of correct decoding of what works and what not.
The other thing that my journey prooves is that decon breaks are not nessesary simply because I never took more than 7 days offs these 2 non gaining years and by continuing with a lot lighter program new gains were sparked.

ALL of the things I have seen in me and from reading genuine stories from other PEers proved me that all we do is try to create a more stretched out dick state in order to create a bigger dick.
When you understand this... its then when you know what you are doing....
1) You are gauzing your training to never get you in a stiff flaccid state because after all its the soft big stretched out state that you are looking for.
2)You are looking closely your MFSL to becoming longer and to be able to elongate faster than before.
3) you are giving attention to your PF to be always balanced by doing RKs and PF stretching in order to counter the tension that the PE training is creating.

The above rules is what I folowed and from a non gainer I bacame a fast gainer.
I say fast because 2 years of no gains and then 6 weeks with 6mm EL gains is way too fast.

Now if your dick does not being stiff and retructed when you are hanging an elephant from it or by using an airlpane to stretch it , then do it , you will still gain if you are having progressions at your MFSL.
ALL I am trying to say with the above joke is that every dick has its own capasity of training and working under the stiffness mechanism is gonna produce gains.... but if with what you are doing all it happens is a stiff-contracted state of flaccid then gains will not happen.
Its like telling me that a body builder can gain muscle size but this size is shpwing up only when he is flexing his muscles.... but his flaccid non flexed muscles have become smaller.

[Azmike]

I agree with this based upon my experience. Is this a summary of the “creep” theory?

Of course not. That's the main thing to figure out. Mainstream science almost completely dismisses PE, so we're on our own in that regard. But we can put a few clues together and make sense of it.

1. Turtling is bad. I think almost everyone can agree on that. But why? Because collagen will deform just as much in response to compression as it will to tension. So if you spend an hour stretching, and you cause a turtling response that lasts for three hours, you have most likely wasted your time.

2. Collagen will return to its original dimensions as much as possible after the tension has ended. The tension makes it creep outward, and the internal action of the molecular triple helix makes it creep back inward. However:

3. It will seek equilibrium. It won't creep all the way back in because some of the fibers get damaged and therefore can't pull themselves back together as well.

So after the main bout of tension (manual stretching or heavy-ish traction), a lighter traction tension prevents it from doing 1 and 2 because you've given it a new equilibrium. And so it has no choice but to succumb to the new length by filling in with new collagen fibers.

How do we know this works? Because again, this combination is all over the top gainers list. Success leaves clues

[JustJackIt]

It is this type of debate and detailed analysis that makes this a great site.

[BundleUp]

I agree with this based upon my experience. Is this a summary of the “creep” theory?

I'm not sure. I haven't read it. It's just the culmination of the studying I've done on how collagen acts. There are probably more similarities than differences, though

[BundleUp]

Well I have already meet my length and girth goal(the girth is surpased) so I don t want to gain more in purpose.
I ll continue doing 3-4h of extending at 600grams and jelqing 2on/1off in order to maintain my new size but my journey has shown me that this exact program has given all the gains I have...so I may gain more by default.
Every time I was doing more than this program ( more hours in extender or bigger tension in extender or both , or inducing manuals before and/or after my extending sessions or big intensity of manuals and big intensity of jelqing followed or not followed by 2-3h of keeping my dick extended to supposingly heal in a stretched state or air pumping or bathmate) my gains was coming into a complete halt and my flaccid size was becoming 24/7 like a stiff little shit.
My differences in my flaccid is huge when it comes to correct training and overtraining.
When I am doing correct training now and all of the periods I have gained my non bone pressed flaccid is about 10cmX12cm and when I am overtraining and these periods I gain nothing my flaccid size was becoming like 4cmX9cm.
You see the difference is huge... so I know exactly when my program is offering gains and when not.
After all 2 years of no gains is not a limited study....
Also 3 months of gains , interuped by 2 years of no gains and then going back to less is more and sparking new growth is not luck... its a clear sighn of correct decoding of what works and what not.
The other thing that my journey prooves is that decon breaks are not nessesary simply because I never took more than 7 days offs these 2 non gaining years and by continuing with a lot lighter program new gains were sparked.

ALL of the things I have seen in me and from reading genuine stories from other PEers proved me that all we do is try to create a more stretched out dick state in order to create a bigger dick.
When you understand this... its then when you know what you are doing....
1) You are gauzing your training to never get you in a stiff flaccid state because after all its the soft big stretched out state that you are looking for.
2)You are looking closely your MFSL to becoming longer and to be able to elongate faster than before.
3) you are giving attention to your PF to be always balanced by doing RKs and PF stretching in order to counter the tension that the PE training is creating.

The above rules is what I folowed and from a non gainer I bacame a fast gainer.
I say fast because 2 years of no gains and then 6 weeks with 6mm EL gains is way too fast.

Now if your dick does not being stiff and retructed when you are hanging an elephant from it or by using an airlpane to stretch it , then do it , you will still gain if you are having progressions at your MFSL.
ALL I am trying to say with the above joke is that every dick has its own capasity of training and working under the stiffness mechanism is gonna produce gains.... but if with what you are doing all it happens is a stiff-contracted state of flaccid then gains will not happen.
Its like telling me that a body builder can gain muscle size but this size is shpwing up only when he is flexing his muscles.... but his flaccid non flexed muscles have become smaller.

I agree with everything you said here. However, I will counter with my own experience:

In the past 7 months, I've gained almost 3/4" with my method of manual stretching only. I have to be stealthy, so I don't have the benefit of traction. But I definitely monitor turtling.

Its possible that you were doing too much stretching during those two years, which caused a constant state of turtling, which was counteracting your gains. It's my opinion that if you had dialed in your stretching routine to just a little less than what would cause turtling, and then added light traction to the mix, you would have been gaining the entire time.

[TeoDeles]

Its possible that you were doing too much stretching during those two years, which caused a constant state of turtling, which was counteracting your gains. It's my opinion that if you had dialed in your stretching routine to just a little less than what would cause turtling, and then added light traction to the mix, you would have been gaining the entire time.

This is exactly what I am saying but without the need of added light traction after the actual manual workout...
I gained 6mm in 6 weeks by doing ultra light manual stretching ( just keep the stretch for 2 mins completely STATIC in the length of the MFSL without any more force) for a total of 30 to 35 mins session and then using no traction at all.
In my case the added traction that you say was always leading me in overtraining and a stiff turtled flaccid.
In my case its EITHER the manual stretching I said EITHER 3 to 4 h of extender . Either of these 2 methods have to be done 2on/1off or 3on/1off-2on/1off.
In general my dick has proven over and over that 3 days in a row its the max it can handle without stiffness... the 4th day should always be a REST.
And after like 2-3 weeks I am throwing 2 rest days in a row.