Thread: So, what next?
- 12-27-2010 #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
I have been doing PE for 6 months now and have gained 1/4" in both length and girth. However this was during the first 3 months on the JP-90. I then went onto Kingpoles 'beginner to advanced-beginner' routine for the last 3 months and have not gained a sausage!
The question in my mind is what next? Do I go back to the JP-90 using the school of thought (also employed by 'PESG') where I stick with what is making me grow? Or start using some of the hundreds of different techniques out there.
I have checked my LOT (7.00), I have checked where I am concerning the TGC theory (my tunica needs working on). It seems that I gain girth easily yet want more length. Not only for myself, but using the 'length first, girth second' ethos. Though having said that it seems that one or two 'vets' think that if one is pre-disposed to gaining girth over length then it doesn't matter what one does, one will always gain the girth easier than the length...
So, what do I do?
- Go back to the JP-90
- Just employ stretching and jelqs, much like the JP-90. And/or separate the stretching and jelqs, ie stretching in the am and jelqs in the pm. I have read going411by7 did/does that...
- Try the PESG routine, or another...
Just for your information, my EQ is always a solid 8-10, my PI's are always very good, and I have no problem edging for 30+ mins (every other day as prescribed in the routine I am currently following). I could go for longer but my shoulder starts to hurt..
I know there are many theories and ideas out there that is why I am starting to lose it concerning what is best for me, hence my question to you all. It really is starting to wind me up seeing as I am consistent and committed, yet I feel I am not yielding the results I would expect if I put this kind of energy and focus into my bodybuilding. I have been bodybuilding for 20 years now so I know a little about committment, focus, and consistency.
Last edited by isambard; 12-27-2010 at 07:53 AM.
- 12-27-2010 #2
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
I gained very little girth for around 9 months or so while gaining significant length. After those initial length gains plateaued, I started targeting length more with a lot of stretches, hanging, and low erection level jelqing and started to gain girth. Since then the girth gains have been slow, but steady, and the length gains even slower.
I think the norm is that most guys gain a certain amount initially after which additional gains require one to not only considerably up the intensity, but also remain very patient. I think there is a certain amount of elasticity and "easy" deformability in the collagenous tissues of the ligaments and tunica, and after exhausting this, additional gains require serious deformation and remodeling over an extended period of time. A lot of guys see some initial gain in the first few months, expect this to continue in a linear fashion over time and start plotting out expected gains, and then become disillusioned when they don't materialize. I also tend to believe that these initial gains tend to be primarily directed toward longitudinal expansion is some guys, and radial expansion in others, no matter what exercises they do.
Who knows what will work best for you? It seems to be different for everyone and what has worked well for one guy might not work at all with another. If I were you and time permitted, I would go back to what did work for you initially and just progressively ramp up the intensity. I have personally found that doing split sets at different times of the day seem to allow me to use more intensity without as much likelihood of suffering diminished EQ or soreness. By increasing the intensity, I mean not only increasing the number of reps but gradually ramping up the force of stretches and jelqs. Maybe do twice as many reps in the form of 2 sets instead of one. Ramp up slowly so that you will know if the increased intensity is too much for your cock.
If you have been doing only simple unidirectional stretches, you might want to try some fulcrum stretches, bundled stretches, bidirectional segmental "tug-of-war" stretches, and "tunica tugs".
As for the theories like the LOT theory, TGC theory, and the "girth gains stifle length gains" thing, remember that there is no real evidence to support any of this. It is all pretty much based on pure hypothesis, and anecdotal experience which has varied greatly from individual to individual, so I wouldn't get too hung up on it. What does seem to me to be consistent when one reads the accounts of guys who have made large gains is that they did ramp up the intensity continuously and significantly as they went, they invested considerable amounts of time in PE, did not get hung up on how much and how fast they were gaining month to month, and stuck with it for long periods of time.
- 01-03-2011 #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Thanks for the detailed response Redbear. I hear what you're saying and have taken on board a few points. Notably, the length first, girth second theory rebuke. I think we had a conflab with going411by7 about this a little while ago and like you, he too motioned the fact that if you're pre-disposed to gaining girth over length then you will. So, with that in mind I'm going to let it be. If I'm going to gain girth when I want length and exercising accordingly, then so be it. You never know I might be the one to be 'the anomaly'! Doubtful I know, it just means I'm not going to get hung up on it anymore.
I think I'm just going to go with it for a while and try not to overthink it too much. So I'm going to try a little experiment with myself for a month or so-pending results.
Basically I'm going to try and read my body's feedback a bit better than I have been able to up until now. In bodybuilding its easy (over the last 20 years it has gotten easier) to read the body's feedback on changing exercises/frequency/intensity/diet etc, but it seems alot harder to read my penis' feedback with the changes I have made so far. I need to go to an extreme to be able to see the differences/changes/outcomes easier. The changes are so minor (no jokes please!) its very difficult to gauge what is right, and what is wrong.
Anyway, I'm quite sure its my tunica that is limiting me at this moment in time. I know its a theory (TGC theory) but to me its a plausible one. If I'm wrong then I'll find out one way or another. You need to reach the end of the road to find out you've taken a wrong turn...
Basically I'm going to mash my tunica as much as I can-sensibly and without causing myself an injury of course. I've just started this routine and its looking positive so far.
On the first day I do bundled stretches- 1st set 30 seconds, 2nd set 45 seconds, 3rd set 1 minute. These 3 sets will be super-setted with tunica tugs (30 second holds) in between each set. Then basic lig stretches to left with 20 kegels, 10 rotary stretches c/w, 10 rotary stretches a-c/w. Lig stretches to the right, kegels, rotaries, lig stretches straight out, kegels, rotaries, lig stretches up, kegels, rotaries. This takes about 30-40 mins including warm up/down.
Second day I repeat the above, but then move onto the second half of the JP90 routine. 3 sets of low-level erection jelqs, 3 sets of v-jelqs. I then finish off with approx 20 mins of edging.
Third day: REST. Fourth day is day one again.
I've done this twice now and am feeling good about this with good PI's.
Last edited by isambard; 01-03-2011 at 08:37 AM.Start: 26/06/10
BPEL = 6.5"
MEG = 5.75"
BPEL = 6.75"
MEG = 6"
Short term goal 8 x 6
Ultimate goal 9 x 7
- 01-03-2011 #4
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Well, you are right that gains may come so slowly that it takes months (sometimes) to know if a change in routine is really effective. And I think a key to avoiding injury with any PE exercise is too simply ratchet the intensity up very slowly. Sometimes an adverse consequence of doing too much does not appear until the next day, or even not until after a week or so. So patience is a key.
The bottom line of the TGC theory is that if you are "tunica limited" you should do more stretching to elongated the tunica, and if you are "smooth muscle limited" you should do more jelqing or other expansion-type maneuvers. I think the vast majority of guys should do both anyway. If you are more interested in length, you should probably focus a bit more on stretches and low erection level jelqing, and if you are more interested in girth, focus more on jelqing at a bit higher erection levels and maybe add some holds and Ulis.
The TGC theory starts off with some established factual information regarding structure of the tunica, smooth-muscle composition within the corpora, and a tendency toward loss of smooth muscle content with aging. It then becomes quite speculative, in my opinion. First I am not sure that smooth muscle function is what is primarily responsible for initiating erection, as is stated in that theory. I think initiation of erection is triggered by arterial vasodilation and smooth muscle relaxation is a secondary event. Secondly, I doubt that loss of smooth muscle with aging is a primary cause of loss of EQ in older men. I think it is more likely that loss of smooth muscle is secondary to less frequent sexual activity and loss or decrease in nocturnal erections.
Finally, there is no direct proof of any kind that jelqing or other "girth oriented" maneuvers will result in an increase in smooth muscle content within the penis, in the absence of biopsy evidence.
I'm not saying the theory is wrong. It might even be correct. I just think it is quite a stretch.