Ultrasonic Therapy + IR therapy for Hard Gainers

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

Hello Everyone!

I recently purchased an inexpensive handheld ultrasonic device with infrared lights to be used as a warm-up/therapeutic aid before workouts and on days off.

I have been a long-time PE'er, very slow, very slight gainer; I am likely the epitome of hard-gainers. As such, I have decided to give this therapeutic device a try in attempt to loosen up dense collagen and or congenital scar tissue within the chambers of my penis. It's difficult to discern what is actually going on within the chambers, due to the fact that I have never had a proper scan, etc., but dense collagen and/or congenital scar tissue formation could be a limiting factor in my quest to grow a thicker cock (my primary goal).

Thus, I have created this thread to document my experiences with the device and my corresponding workout. I'm very methodical and will post within this thread at least 2-3 times/week with as much detail as possible (PIs: horniness, softness, easy of expansion during jelqing, erection frequency, morning erection quality/occurence, etc.).

My current workout (1 day on, 1 day off; 4 weeks before 3-7 days off):

-10 minutes warm-up with Ultrasonic + IR device.
-15 minutes high force, slow jelqs at 50-60% erection (about 4-5 seconds per jelq, one hand clamped at base with other hand jelqing --really good for 'feeling' the blood flow)
-1-2 minutes high force, slow jelqs at 80-90% erection
-5-10 minutes of edging.

On off days I will use the Ultrasonic device for 10 minutes.

If anyone has experience working with Infrared light therapy and/or ultrasonic therapy, please do contribute to this thread.

Looking forward to getting the gains!

-Douglas Hamlin

[DemOne Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DemOne]

Ultrasonic waves, or any decent vibration for long periods of time, have actually been shown in studies to decrease the rate of growth in smooth muscle and vascular tissue as well as decrease blood-flow. It's good for skeletal muscle, but not the tissue/muscle that penises are composed of. The studies were done on lab rats, but the results do cross over into humans.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

I'd be interested in reading those sources, because from what I have read, US waves can induce angiogensis (formation of new blood vessels), proliferation of cells (growth), fibrblast production (essential for wound repair), scar reduction/healing, etc.

Here are some sources I have dug up.

Basics from Wikipedia
Therapeutic ultrasound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ultrasound Therapy and Angiogensis The effect of therapeutic ultrasound on ... [Ultrasound Med Biol. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

ScienceDirect.com - Ultrasound in Medicine & Biology - The effect of therapeutic ultrasound on angiogenesis

Interesting article on skeletal muscle tissue:
Effects of Therapeutic Ultrasound on the Regeneration of Skeletal Myofibers After Experimental Muscle Injury

Ultrasound Therapy and Cell Proliferation, Angiogenesis, etc.
http://www.consultronix.pl/publicati...-monocytes.pdf
Excellent Quote: "Healing and tissue regeneration can be improved or accelerated by therapeutic angiogenesis."

[Lazy 8 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lazy 8]

Doug,

Check out this info I posted last year:

https://www.pegym.com/forums/pe-theo...tml#post417836

I was interested in trying ultrasound until I read the above articles and that made me dubious about the unintended consequences. Keep us posted if you proceed. I'm a slow grower, too, so I'm interested in new approaches.

[DemOne Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DemOne]

It will take me a while to find it. It's not easy searching through almost 6,000 posts to find where I posted it.

Skeletal muscle and smooth muscle are completely different however. What works for skeletal muscle rarely works on smooth muscle, as there's just no similarities between the two; not even protein types are the same.

Edit: But to back-up Lazy 8's link, the tissue in our penises is the exact same as found in those other internal organs.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

Lazy 8:

That is a very long thread... if there are any particular keypoints you would like to high-light, I would appreciate it.

DemOne:

I study exercise physiology and I am aware of the basic structural and functional differences between skeletal vs. smooth vs. cardiac muscle tissue. The penis is composed of a special type of smooth muscle called "trabecular smooth muscle", slightly distinct from all other tissue types. Nonetheless, growth of smooth muscle (including trabecular) and its constituents (collagen, elastin, cellular martix, etc.) tissue is largely regulated by endothelial growth factors, such as VEGF. Angiogenesis is a critical step in the proliferation of vascular tissue growth and maintenance. Therefore, if US therapy can upregulate angiogenesis, then it may be a viable therapy.

But more importantly - regarding my specific situation - is its potential in alleviating scar tissue and collagen deformations. Again, I am only speculating, but based on my congenital curve (to the left by about 20 degrees) and difficulty "moving blood" during jelqing with anything over 60% erection, I would say that I may have a congenital collagen/scar tissue problem.

Excellent discussion thus far. In any case, I'll keep you guys posted.

[DemOne Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DemOne]

If you have an issue with Peyronies, an extender is probably better and safer to use to fix your issue. It works, is their prime purpose as PE/medical devices, and doesn't come with the negative side effects from ultrasonic therapy on the tissue.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

There is a difference with peyronies and congenital penile curvature. I've had my curve since the onset of puberty. Again, likely due to congenital collagen deformities. Besides that, extenders don't work well for me - penis loses circulation and gets very cold within 15-20 minutes.

[Lazy 8 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lazy 8]

Good discussion, Doug. Thanks for your participation.

[Lazy 8 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lazy 8]

[QUOTE=Douglas Hamlin;484315]Lazy 8:

That is a very long thread... if there are any particular keypoints you would like to high-light, I would appreciate it.

Basically, the message in the thread I cited seemed to warn about keeping US away from your testes. It could be game over if you don't.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

Basically, the message in the thread I cited seemed to warn about keeping US away from your testes. It could be game over if you don't.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to steer the US device away from my testicles - my girlfriend definitely needs them.

Pre-workout notes: had multiple morning erections that were about an 7-8/10. Normal flaccid hang and temperature before onset of workout.

Day 1 (with new US + IR device):

10 minute warm up with "low" setting on Ultrasonic waves, IR LEDs on.
15 minutes of high force, slow jelqs, with 1 hand clamping at base while other jelqs up the shaft for ~4 seconds (for the sake of simplicity, I call will hence forth call these Advanced Jelqs - unless there is another name for them) @ 50-60% erection.
2 minutes of Advanced jelqs @ 80-90% erection.
7 minutes of edging - no orgasm.
5 minutes of US at "high" + IR.
2 minutes of Advanced jelq at 50-60% erection.

Workout Notes: Didn't feel particularly horny during edging session or workout in general. Ease of expansion during jelqing feels normal to slightly above normal (6-7/10). Erection quality = 8/10.

Immediately post workout: felt good - nice flaccid hang, no turtling, penis felt very warm (8/10).

4 hours post workout: penis is hanging better than average, but feels a bit cold to the touch (4/10). Odd combination considering that warmth goes with better than average flaccid.

Other thoughts: Trying to discern if "low", "medium", or "high" setting is preferred for optimal therapeutic effect and warm-up. Ideally, I am trying to stimulate maximal connective tissue elasticity. There are various studies measuring the effect of 1 vs. 3 vs. 5 MHz on tissue penetration and effects. The device I have claims 3 MHz frequency - but there is no clear indication of what low, medium, and high correspond to... So I will have to experiment with the settings to see which facilitates a better workout (ease of expansion, erection quality, etc.).

I bought the device on Ebay, but here is a quick link for reference: Photon Ultrasound Beauty Massager

I'll update if I notice anything else worth documenting. Tomorrow is a day off.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

Update: noticed that flaccid hang was better than average most of the day. Warmth is normal (5/10). We'll see how this turns out in the next 2 weeks.

[Padawan787 Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Padawan787]

Keep it away from your balls, it causes temporary sterilisation

Easy birth control but I don't know if there is any long-term damage

[Wantmorebulge Member Find all posts View Profile Close Wantmorebulge]

I agree with your thinking on angiogenesis, however I doubt if the device you are using would deliver enough power to cause the effects you are looking for. I had a look at a device similar to the one you linked to, and there is no mention in the technical specification of the amplitude or intensity of the ultrasound delivered. The 3MHz will be sufficient for superficial penetration, of a few millimeters of tissue if you have the interface done correctly such as using a gel or lube. I know the intensity of the IR of those devices is quite low, and will do little for raising tissue temperature. I use a 250W IR lamp with a reflector behind my unit, and it is painfully intense.

Another factor to checkout is the variety of inhibitors of angiogenesis that are present in diets. Many of the foods and drugs with "anticancer" properties are inhibitors of angiogenesis, which can frustrate your efforts.

On the risks of ultrasound linked in the other thread, I would not pay too much attention. Those seem to have been written by a lawyer rather than a physiologist, and are blanket warnings. Diagnostic US is used routinely in pregnancy for example. The warning of US on testicles is a fair one, but the penetration of 3MHz at the intensities in those devices is not going to get as far as the testes unless you press it up directly onto them.

I am watching with interest.

[Douglas Hamlin Member Find all posts View Profile Close Douglas Hamlin]

Day 2 - rest

10 minutes of US (high) + IR.

PIs:
+ warmth (7/10)
+ softness (7/10)
+ Horniness (8.5-9/10)
+ slightly larger flaccid hang
+ Erection quality (8.5/10)

Other thoughts: going to stick with "high" setting for a few days and see how that goes. I will try to make comparisons with "low" setting once I get a sense of what "high" does (if anything at all). Also, its important to note that I am only applying US + IR therapy to the left corpus cavernosum chamber as it feels a bit tougher and is also a bit smaller in circumference than the right chamber. If all goes well, left side will become softer, larger, and induce a straightening of my left curve.