- 03-07-2013 #51
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
After having posted a long entry on the following forum https://www.pegym.com/forums/womans-...enis-size.html Pegasus challenged me to comment on this discussion. Not one to turn down a challenge, here I am. As my other posting addresses a lot of the same issues, I'm gonna try to not duplicate too much here, but rather supplement - or it would end up being a book!
I find the analysis by the_scientist really interesting not least because by nature I'm really analytical, but when it comes to sex I am all instinct, so have never really thought about it using the analytical approach.
Some of the analysis I agree with 100%++, most of it I agree with to a large extent and some of it I can say definitely does not apply to me at all. I must add that I am just one woman, and women are extremely varied on sex. Based on what I hear from female friends and from lovers I am among the luckier women as I get enormous pleasure from sex. I often joke that I want my tombstone to be engraved with "I wish I'd had more sex". I'm also 47 years old and have had pretty many lovers so have quite a lot of reference points.
Before reading please be aware that I think geometry plays a very small part in sexual pleasure. It is - especially so for woman - far more important to mentally turned on and attracted to someone. It is also far more important to be skilled and know how to use what you have.
Some of this is about what the guy does - some of it physically but certainly (at least with me) even more the "mind games" - this is more described on the other Post. Some of this is about who the guy is. As I've got older I've come to realize that the traits that attract me to a guy fall into two buckets: the traits that could make him a good partner, and the traits that will get me mentally turned on / lead to great sex. Some traits overlap the two buckets. To give some insight (bear in mind this is very much me):
- kind / generous = this guy is going to be focused on my satisfaction
- cheeky / charming / playful = I like kinky sex, and he will bring me to that point
- confident (the real confidence, not the bullshit type) = he's at ease with himself and confident so will be present in the love making and not get stressed about whether he is hard enough, or big enough. or whether I touch something he has a complex on, or too focused on the technical love making, sounds, liquids, stains, etc, etc. Because he's at ease with himself he's also more likely to be at ease with me - if I squirt, or scream too loud, or have weird fantasies, etc - so I know I can be myself and let myself go (very, very important if I'm to have good sex).
- masculine (60% of which is confidence, but also things like taking charge, being the ying to my yang) = a) men are sexy, b) most women like to be lead in love making - that he makes the overtures, he takes the initiative to move it to bed/sex, he initiates the positions. Re b) I think it's partly the stigma of girl's not supposed to be too sexual (tramp, slut, etc) and by the guy leading she doesn't own the responsibility for there being sex; in part it's also that by him taking charge I can focus more on just enjoying it; and lastly, the strength and power that many men have is a real turn on as it makes us feel more feminine (ying/yang). I'll never forget the boxer I dated who one time in love making (not one of the early times of making love, but once he knew what I enjoyed by positions) lifted me up from missionary, rotated me into doggy position, grabbed my thighs and … wow! Not everyone can do that, but a very similar feeling is when a guy lifts you onto a table or pulls you to the edge of the bed - good stuff!
- OK relationship to / respect for women = he won't make me feel like a sum of body parts (horrible feeling!), and he's more likely to think of my sexual pleasure as a strength in me than me being a tramp.
Think this is why women very often fall for the bad boys (especially when younger) - bad boys have so many of these traits, but sadly commonly lack the first and the last. Also think this is why there often is complete misunderstanding between the genders when women look deep into the eyes of the guy and say "I feel we have chemistry/connection" or "you have that certain je ne sais quoi" or "you and I feel right" - I've often met guys who think this is the girl rushing into a relationship / getting feelings too early. I tend to believe that for most of us women it actually mainly means "you seem to meet my criteria for what turns me on."
Sorry I went on and on about this, but it really is the most important element of good sex. I'll be quicker from here on out, more aligned with the straight talk of the_scientist.
Being attracted to the guy (which in my book indicates that I consider him good looking, fit, etc) is actually not that relevant to the sexual pleasure in my book. It's what makes you invited to the bed, but actually becomes quite irrelevant in bed.
Guys - there is a reason why you guys watch porn and we read porn. (OK, it's not the only reason but certainly is a very central reason). You guys are visually linked to lust, we are generally more stimulated by the acts / fantasies / memories. But it is a question of degrees rather than black & white.
the aesthetic of a long/fat/muscular penis is attractive to woman and turns a woman on
Agree with that your three categories are fairly different. In my book the cul-de-sac / deep penetration / A-spot are a separate, 4th category - orgasm is very different from the others. And in my book intercourse with a big penis is situated somewhere between G-spot and anal sex categories - it's the pain/pleasure element that for me makes a big penis different.
The other bolt-ons I recognize as "additional sensation", but so many more missing - playing with anus, playing with nipples, etc And those are more my favourites.
And if you're talking different categories then I think your list is perhaps too one-dimentional / technical. E.g. clitoral sex (at least to me) is sort of similar to the "waves" that often come after the main vaginal / G orgasms. Then on a completely different plane is the scream out loud / contort your body / squirting / heart arrhythmia types of orgasms that really require full mental turn-on as well as a more "complex" physical sex.
Love your "warning" of clitoral stimulation as "distracting". I've often struggled with how to explain it, and you're spot on. I'm overly sensitive, and direct touch "distracts" rather than creates. Pressure against the clit is fantastic, and licking during oral is great. But more than once I've experienced eager hands reaching for my clit kill an orgasm that was 99% there. Man, we women are complex. And from my female friends I think you're right that for most women the clit is the easiest. For me it's always been vaginal that's been easiest. Not sure if that is G-spot or just generally vaginal - theory says G-spot, but my personal "feel" is that those are two different ones. Mine are anywhere in the vagina, and especially simply the penetration. 95% of the time I come immediately the guy penetrates me - finger or penis.
Squirting certainly is linked to a single point in my vagina, and I support those who attribute it to the Skene gland / the female prostate. Still massively confused about what that is (except very clear it is f***ing good). My first time was at the age of 42, making love 5 years into the relationship with a FB/lover - suddenly it was there. Ever since I squirt 30-50% of the sessions.
I certainly do orgasm with anal in isolation. I can, during anal, feel that my vaginal muscles are doing weird things at the same time, so maybe that is why I can do it in isolation. But apparently my vaginal muscles do that also during intercourse - first time it was fully described to me by a lover was recently, and it sounded a lot like what I feel during anal, so either it is a part of what causes my orgasms, or it's the stages of my orgasm. I really like anal, and will often instigate it (especially as sexual confidence grew with age) - the intensity of pleasure and pain is key to why I like it. But the intensity is also why I don't do it more than maybe every 5th session if the FB is game (and a lot of guys aren't keen).
Size of women: Think you have to factor into that that the size of the vagina will adjust over time (2nd or 3rd time of love making in my experience) to "fit" her lover. I know the degree of adjustment varies from woman to woman. I think I'm sort of middle when in normal state, but have gone tight on a 2-3 inch long penis (girth in proportion). I don't know girth inches but had one lover that had a girth so that when I grabbed it there was a good inch from tip of middle finger to thumb - first entry was slow, but later easier. Had one lover who was like a coke can - same girth and length - and while I could take him my vagina never adjusted to "fit" him.
Size of penis: This is what my original post was about, and deals with extensively.
There I refer to the fact that the best lover I've ever had had a penis 2-3 inches long (and in the beginning he normally had premature ejaculation). I find big penises to be fun too. If I were to give a preference - and as said, size really isn't important to me - it would be a penis in "the normal range" (don't really know what that is in inches but looking at a ruler now I would guess 4-8 inches). I say this because a big penis limits or excludes a lot of positions that give me great pleasure, and shorter than normal range give milder vaginal stimulation. My first dildo was slightly above the "medium" sizes in the shop, but it was quickly replaced by a smaller dildo. 3 months later I put it away and reverted to my favorite "sex toy" - my middle finger. Once or twice a year I might go to the dildos, just to get that different feel. And similarly and for the same reasons, the very few times I go for a one night stand I would love it to be a big one if I haven't had a big one for a long time.
But mostly I have lovers / FBs - often over 10+ year (but not exclusive) and then size is not important. Over the last 12 months I've been exploring two new lovers. One was a fling that has been flung - the other guy I'm really hoping will prove to be a long term thing.
- 30 years old
- fit and good looking
- works in music ind and hangs with celebs
- penis well above average
- 50-60 years old
- good looking but overweight
- manager in industry
- slightly below av penis (4+ inch I'm guessing) and some ED following prostate cancer
It's Guy B who does the magic and has me pining for him.
Man, could write so much more, but this is already too long. Real tempted to tell the story of the guy who got me from a life of good sex to a life of exceptionally good sex and how he did that.
- 03-07-2013 #52
I don't want to come off the wrong way. I enjoyed your post, but one thing I notice about female posters on male-dominant PE sites is that they tend to be older, "different" and have views that fit in to what we as males would LIKE to believe. As such, I appreciate the info, but I have to take it with a grain of salt because more than likely it doesn't apply to a lot of women.
Collection of scientific articles and books related to PE: pe_sources.zip
- 03-08-2013 #53
Thank you for the great post, Vixen65. Unfortunately, that vast majority of males (including myself) on this website are retarded. Some of us will believe you and have that experience it takes to believe you but most of us do not have that sufficient experience and will question whether or not you're a man in disguise, a woman trying to sell us something, a rare exception of a woman, or a woman that feels sorry for us.
The women of PEGym have written all you've just said many times before but only a few of us men have listened.
Me, I'm a virgin so I don't even know what the hell's going on.
Thank you for the kind post, again.
- 03-09-2013 #54
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
You have a very good point - suspect most of us women on here, and especially willing to post something like I did, are among the luckier / more relaxed among women. But there are quite a few of "us" out there, and especially as we get older.
I've had two friends that are the other extreme. One who has never had an orgasm (my age) and her main enjoyment in sex is the closeness she gets with her guy, and the pleasure he gets from sex. Another friend who can only orgasm if he is really, really big. This is one of the reasons I always highlight a) this is my experience and b) there is a huge range in women. Even though there is a huge range in women, I can say that when we women discuss sex penis size isn't often a topic. But we also talk about sex differently than guys. Perceive that when guys talk about sex it's usually about highlights and accomplishments. Ladies' sex talk usually is about checking what other ladies are experiencing, discussing sex in the long term relationship, discussing our own sexuality (we find it fascinating how varied we are) - plus what we like (especially what attracts us).
As "guys" the best investment you can do with your girl is to get her to be at ease with herself and sex, and get her to be more like those of us ladies in this forum.
A few words about the guy who changed my sex life for ever. The first few years I had sex I enjoyed it, orgasmed easily, etc. But I was really uncomfortable with sex. I was really self-conscious and uncomfortable about my body - my boobs were best described as mosquito bites, had no curves and a huge appendix scar. I knew men are really stimulated by the visual, and through sex my mind kept thinking about how I really didn't have anything to contribute on that score. And I was so focused on doing it technically correct. And I didn't want to come across as slutty so held back - on full effect of orgasms, fantasies, fingers roaming, sex talk, etc. All these insecurities really distracted me, and prevented me from enjoying sex.
Then I had a one-night stand with this gorgeous guy. After a couple of sessions he tells me I'm very sexy - I turn away and quietly say "I'm not". He then gave me a lecture about "what guys find sexy" - again, not sure how representative he is, but the impact it had on me was HUGE. Some of the things he told me:
- The biggest turn on in bed is a girl that enjoys sex. An orgasm in her is the #1 turn on. That I come easily is a HUGE turn-on and "makes you at the sexier end of the scale for all guys".
- My boobs being small I really shouldn't think about. He preferred them small, most guys just love boobs regardless of size, and the guys who love / are fixated on the huge ones aren't the ones who will take me to bed - so stop thinking about it.
- Physically most guys are turned on by the softness and femininity of women's bodies. That's why guys love curves. I don't have the classic curves, but I do have the softness and a lot of the curves - and he pointed out the beauty of my calfs (I had never thought calfs could be sexy), the curve of my bum, the curve of my lower back. "Physically you are very sexy - most women are"
- He also had an unusual thing he observed in women. Body language. He said that you can tell by how a woman walks if she will be good in bed. Relaxed, fluid gate indicates she'll be relaxed in bed and about her body. A slight sway of the hips as she walks or stroking her arm when she talks indicates a lusty / erotic woman. "You have that walk, but you're not yet relaxed in bed".
He then told me that if my goal was to be as sexy as possible to a guy I should:
- Stop focusing on technique and how I can please the guy. "Be 100% selfish in bed. Do what will bring you pleasure, and gently guide him to do what will please you. This will turn the guy on enormously". This one really surprised me, and I was skeptical.
- Don't even think about your body or looks (whether it's sexy or not) when you're having sex - how your body is compared to other women is a factor in deciding whether he'll take you to bed, but once there he won't think that way at all - his focus will be on enjoying what is there.
- Let yourself go. Slutty is about sleeping around too much, being too easy to get to bed - enjoying sex has nothing to do with being slutty. Letting yourself go - letting him see your full orgasm, your full sexuality - is very sexy, boosts his ego and will give him real pleasure.
- Use sex to explore your sexuality - find out what turns you on, and do it / get him to do it. He will get a real kick out of being told "hey, I've sort of been wanting to try …".
- If one guy you're having sex with doesn't want to play out one of your fantasies, does react badly to something you do, does get intimidated by your sexuality, does negatively comment on a body issue - then that is a reflection on him, not you. Shake it off and try again with the next guy.
I was skeptical to what he said, but followed his guidance - and saw the effect. I think he was right - what do you guys say? And I had no idea at all that male sexuality was like that. His insight completely changed my sex life. The more I did what he recommended the more I could see the guy enjoying it. And more importantly it completely transformed sex for me - the more I relaxed, the more comfortable I was on my sexuality, the more "selfish" I was the greater the sex was.
If you guys think his perspective is right then I think sharing this view on male sexuality with your girlfriends - especially if you're younger - can really open her eyes too. It is such a different take on guys than what we think based on media and listening to guys talk. The perspective he gave me enabled me to completely open up to my sexuality and he "created a sex monster".
- 03-09-2013 #55
I would have to agree 100% with what this man told you. A man wants to please the woman he is with, plain and simple - it's nearly the entire basis of this website! I'm sure there are men out there that are selfish lovers, but most all men that I've ever known would likely agree with what you wrote above. A relaxed, confident woman who isn't afraid to let go is extremely sexy!
- 03-09-2013 #56
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Thanks for the feedback. I'm def a female (not undercover guy), and very honest. Oh, I know the insecurities of youth. If it's any comfort - the girls are even more insecure. Best part of getting old is the increased confidence - the realization that almost all the things we stress about when younger really aren't that important. More than makes up for the physical decline. You could not pay me to be 19 again!
My tip to girls and guys - for great sex and a great life: focus on getting confident and more relaxed about EVERYTHING - and help your partner do the same.
Apply logic: if the physical issues were key to good sex, why does sex for women get better and better the older we get (during which time the guys get less buff, not more)?
- 03-09-2013 #57
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Thanks - I suspected that. But do you know how exceedingly few guys EVER give the ladies this insight? Only one guy in all my 47 years told me this - and it completely changed sex for me. Especially as he started the convo by saying he was gonna explain to me why I was so sexy. Life changing convo.
I would guess that 95% of girls in their 20s have a lot of the foibles and misunderstandings I had. You guys think there's a lot of focus on penis size?! Girls only hear about the physical traits guys find sexy, and are told sex for guys is only visual /physical. Any wonder we get stressed and self-conscious during sex? Set her straight. Think there's plenty sex addicts out there that can be unleashed by her guy giving her the insight I got.
Selfish guys are horrible in the sack - luckily I've only experienced a fully selfish lover once in my life. And often see less effort in guys that are well hung - one of the main reasons I never seem to have long term BFs or FBs that have a big penis.
Last edited by Vixen65; 03-09-2013 at 11:24 AM.
- 03-09-2013 #58
Member of the Month Apr 2014, Sept 2016
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
- Her Cul-De-Sac!
IMO, no matter how big my penis gets, I will always focus on my girlfriend when in the sack with her. After all, that's the whole point of sex! If I wanted to be selfish and just focus solely on pleasuring myself, well, I would go hide and fuck myself. I remember my ex telling me I'm the best she's ever had, and now that I think about it, I'm beginning to honestly believe her. Why? Because I always pleased her before I ever pleased myself.
I'm yet to experience a friend with benefits type situation, because of this trait of mine. lol
- 03-09-2013 #59
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- Mar 2013
Oh, forgot one comment I wanted to make.
That's quite a large range there. 8 inches is huge. And if you're looking at a ruler to judge that, that implies NBPEL. ~9" BPEL is rare.
To me there seriously is no difference at all in penises within the range of 4-8 inches erect - exactly the same feel/sensation in my vagina.
- 03-09-2013 #60
Last edited by jay1993; 03-09-2013 at 02:13 PM.Start July 2012: 6.3 BPEL, 5.125 MSEG
Current : 7.375 BPEL, 5.3-5.4 MSEG, 7.125 NBPEL
Short Term Goal:7.5 BPEL, 5.5 MSEG
Goal: 8.5 BPEL, 6 MSEG, 8.25 NBPEL
I am on a fucking Girth Mission right now. No sleep till 5.75 MSEG!
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