Radial vs. longitudinal tunica (girth proposal)

[Big Al]

Great info Big Al! Thanks for the links.

Based on the conversations you and I recently had, and your reccomendation to back way off on my training routine, would you say that once someone has gotten too aggressive/obsessive with PE and invoked that defensive response from collegen, can this be overcome and reversed by starting with a light routine, staying warm, and keeping the variation, and ever so slight increases in intensity minized?

You're welcome

The plan of action that you described is just about perfect

Maximizing growth is about finding balance. The right type and degree of training combined with just the right amount of rest. MANY trainees make the mistake of training too frequently. They assume that because their penises can ;take it" and that they're not sore that they can accelerate gains by training more frequently. You might recover from that, but will not grow. Eventually, EQ issues usually kick in, and what you've had is an unproductive training cycle.

Sometimes with the above, merely taking a layoff period can effect a "rebound effect"- where some growth is observed because you've allowed enough time for healing and growth.

Remember to make EQ gains a priority oo, That will enable you to handle more intense training, recover more quickly, and the exercises themselves will be more productive. That in addition to the benefits of being able to last longer sexually should make EQ a top concern.

[Big Al]

I'm curious about that too "Increasing", if the collagens defensive reponse has been invoked does one need a complete 2-3 month deconditioning break or can one simply cut down on intensity or time of their routine e.g. if one has been doing girth works hard every single day and invoked the defense collagen response would they need to simply start workouts every other day lightly or would they need to take a complete decon break to reset the tissues?

It might not take that long to recover. What you suffered any negative side effects while on your recent training cycle? If so, can you be detailed as to the symptoms and extent?

[Big Al]

I'm also interested in seeing what the response is. I've now been consistently exercising for almost three years (mostly logged here). I haven't seen significant growth since the newbie days and I've done some seriously intense exercises such as 30min clamps, clamped erect bends etc. All this without injuries worse than red dots, as I try to listen to my body. My EQ is 10+ rock hard but my greatest girth is when I'm less than fully erect. It almost feels like my tunica "compresses" at full erection.

I tend to go overboard pretty quickly once I get into something so I'm probably the poster boy for putting my tunica in defense mode as soon as I got conditioned enough to train consistently multiple days a week.

I was already considering taking a full year off just for the sake of deconditioning and to make sure the break is long enough for the tunica to come out of a protective state, but so far I haven't made up my mind whether to go for it or not.

Big Al, if you would take a peek at my log, and consider the questions above regarding the defensive response.

I didn't have to read too far into it to see that your routine looked positively brutal! if you were doing those exercises with any degree of intensity, I'm amazed that you haven't invoked serious damage or side effects.

Have you considered the mental fatigue involved in training so hard & long and not much to show for it? I do truly have to admire your tenacity, though- most men would have quit a long time ago. That shows a lot of promise, and if you can manage to get under a productive routine that will go a long way towards making your training career long and fruitful

[Increasing]

Great answers Big AL, always appreciate the insight!

[Big Al]

Great answers Big AL, always appreciate the insight!

Thanks

[sixrod]

I didn't have to read too far into it to see that your routine looked positively brutal! if you were doing those exercises with any degree of intensity, I'm amazed that you haven't invoked serious damage or side effects.

Yes the intensity was there, but I was also careful to back off at the first sign of (severe) discomfort. At this level of intensity there is always some discomfort though, and I know hand / arm fatigue, fluid buildup and red dots all too well. Still; there was no growth so in this case high risk doesn't imply high reward.

It just goes to show there is more at work than just "expanding beyond normal dimensions" , I've bent my clamped erect unit in all directions and the stretch on specific parts of the tunica was outstanding (as well as extremely dangerous!) , but did it net me any gains? Maybe in the long run it might've, but when I see people breaking out of a plateau, they do it in a matter of weeks, not months, when they find the thing that was holding them back. I wasn't comfortable staying in the high risk training zone for months when all I really felt was temporary expansion, fatigue, fluid buildup and discoloration, but no plump post-workout flaccid CC/CS (on the surface yes, but that's just the skin, veins and accumulated lymphatic fluid in the tissue) and no measurable difference in either length or girth. If I took a week off and let all swelling subside, I was just the same as when I started.

Have you considered the mental fatigue involved in training so hard & long and not much to show for it? I do truly have to admire your tenacity, though- most men would have quit a long time ago. That shows a lot of promise, and if you can manage to get under a productive routine that will go a long way towards making your training career long and fruitful

Thanks. I figured that if I quit completely, I can be certain there will be no gains. In that sense, at least doing something will give me the potential for gains, so I've just stuck to it. But it can be frustrating at times.

I've taken a month off during summer of each year but I haven't made any breakthrough as a result of that. So that's why this thread caught my attention -- I want to know if I need a really long break to come out of defensive mode, or if I can just apply a completely new philosophy to my training and my tunica will "relax into it" once it figures I'm not attempting to damage it? (and regarding the new philosophy, if pro coaching is what it takes, we can continue that discussion via PM but for the sake of general education, let's keep this going)

My problem is, even when I adjust my routine towards less intensity (a light grip and exercises that are easier on my penis), it only lasts a few weeks tops before I find myself using a tighter grip. I just can't subconsciously believe that something resembling masturbation so much could create growth, so I always end up pushing just that little bit more blood when I'm jelqing, or squeezing just that little bit more when doing an Uli/squeeze. Now I've started to fear I'm in a dead-end, my tunica is like a bullet-proof vest, and I need to have the courage to "waste" a full calendar year giving it a complete rest, and then re-starting with a seriously disciplined view on intensity. I would prefer not to but if that's what it takes, I will.

[Increasing]

I think everyone should at some point sign up with Big Al's coaching service. I dont' know him outside the forums and outside the guidance he has given me during the times I have been signed up with him. Of course, if you are a long term member of this site, he probably wont' give you any groundbreaking advice in terms of specific excercises and/or techniques. But I think one of the key's is to find the right routine (collection of excercise), that need to be done in a certain order, on a certain number of days, and increase in intensity over some duration of time. There is that balanced zone of training just enough to challenge your body into growing, but not pushing too hard that bring injury into play, or you invoke your body's defense mechanisms that inhibit growth.

People spend hundred$ of $$ on all kinds of devices, etc... save that money, Sign up with Big Al for a period of time, and let him get you on a good plan, and if you can afford to stick with the service consistently, not a problem, if you can't, then come back and pay again for an occassional tuneup a couple times a year...

Again, I have no connection to this service other than having been a customer...

I have to admit, one of my failures is that I didnt exactly listen to his guidance, I was like alot of other people, I did what he suggested, felt like my body could take more, so i pushed it harder. "If a little of something is good, then more of that same thing is better!" Right? well, if you read through this tread, you can quickly see that it's not the case...

[AverageAndAhalf]

Wealth of knowledge in this thread, thanks for sharing Guys

[Big Al]

Yes the intensity was there, but I was also careful to back off at the first sign of (severe) discomfort. At this level of intensity there is always some discomfort though, and I know hand / arm fatigue, fluid buildup and red dots all too well. Still; there was no growth so in this case high risk doesn't imply high reward.

It just goes to show there is more at work than just "expanding beyond normal dimensions" , I've bent my clamped erect unit in all directions and the stretch on specific parts of the tunica was outstanding (as well as extremely dangerous!) , but did it net me any gains? Maybe in the long run it might've, but when I see people breaking out of a plateau, they do it in a matter of weeks, not months, when they find the thing that was holding them back. I wasn't comfortable staying in the high risk training zone for months when all I really felt was temporary expansion, fatigue, fluid buildup and discoloration, but no plump post-workout flaccid CC/CS (on the surface yes, but that's just the skin, veins and accumulated lymphatic fluid in the tissue) and no measurable difference in either length or girth. If I took a week off and let all swelling subside, I was just the same as when I started.

Why do you think that discomfort is necessarily a sign of a good workout? If the results of an uncomfortable routine have not been good, then you have enough data to show that that particular form of training is nonproductive.

You've kept detailed records so you have a game plan for what not to do now. You also have nothing to lose by trying something else.

Thanks. I figured that if I quit completely, I can be certain there will be no gains. In that sense, at least doing something will give me the potential for gains, so I've just stuck to it. But it can be frustrating at times.

I've taken a month off during summer of each year but I haven't made any breakthrough as a result of that. So that's why this thread caught my attention -- I want to know if I need a really long break to come out of defensive mode, or if I can just apply a completely new philosophy to my training and my tunica will "relax into it" once it figures I'm not attempting to damage it? (and regarding the new philosophy, if pro coaching is what it takes, we can continue that discussion via PM but for the sake of general education, let's keep this going)

My problem is, even when I adjust my routine towards less intensity (a light grip and exercises that are easier on my penis), it only lasts a few weeks tops before I find myself using a tighter grip. I just can't subconsciously believe that something resembling masturbation so much could create growth, so I always end up pushing just that little bit more blood when I'm jelqing, or squeezing just that little bit more when doing an Uli/squeeze. Now I've started to fear I'm in a dead-end, my tunica is like a bullet-proof vest, and I need to have the courage to "waste" a full calendar year giving it a complete rest, and then re-starting with a seriously disciplined view on intensity. I would prefer not to but if that's what it takes, I will.

Experiment and aim for that "sweet spot" in between training that is too light, and too much. Why not take a period of time to have some fun with your training? Experiment with different methods that you haven't considered before, and do so in a manner that's active but not as stressful as what you're used to.

If your training session have become a chore to you, you need some time to refresh and develop a renewed mindset.

[Big Al]

I think everyone should at some point sign up with Big Al's coaching service. I dont' know him outside the forums and outside the guidance he has given me during the times I have been signed up with him. Of course, if you are a long term member of this site, he probably wont' give you any groundbreaking advice in terms of specific excercises and/or techniques. But I think one of the key's is to find the right routine (collection of excercise), that need to be done in a certain order, on a certain number of days, and increase in intensity over some duration of time. There is that balanced zone of training just enough to challenge your body into growing, but not pushing too hard that bring injury into play, or you invoke your body's defense mechanisms that inhibit growth.

People spend hundred$ of $$ on all kinds of devices, etc... save that money, Sign up with Big Al for a period of time, and let him get you on a good plan, and if you can afford to stick with the service consistently, not a problem, if you can't, then come back and pay again for an occassional tuneup a couple times a year...

Again, I have no connection to this service other than having been a customer...

I have to admit, one of my failures is that I didnt exactly listen to his guidance, I was like alot of other people, I did what he suggested, felt like my body could take more, so i pushed it harder. "If a little of something is good, then more of that same thing is better!" Right? well, if you read through this tread, you can quickly see that it's not the case...

Your kind words are most appreciated