Down-training and spasms (IK)

[omarlopz]

Hello All,

During the process of relaxing tension in the pelvic floor (through reverse kegels and stretches), has anyone noticed pelvic floor spasms?

The spams typically happen in the morning, before I have consciously been able to control them. They’re light in strength but can last a few moments.

Just to give context, I have been focusing on RK’s only, as having previously visited a clinical expert in pelvic floor rehabilitation I was told that there was a lot of tension (I may write start a thread on my pelvic floor experience, as I’ve yet to see anyone else post anything similar). I’m still not sure whether I am doing RK correctly, as I can only feel my pelvic floor ‘drop’ with diaphragmatic breathing. Is it possible to do RK while breathing out? :S

Noticeable symptoms at this point are IK (spasms), frequency of urination & issues emptying urine from urethra.

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I have lifelong PreE, and I can remember rushing my first masturbation sessions and believe this is the main factor, I’ve also bad bouts of Anxiety attacks and diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder, so this may have contributed.

I’ve been visiting this site for many years, but am taking proper steps now to try and improve my PreE, and if successful am happy to share any insights along the way! Good luck to all on this journey too.

[Paul789]

Have you seen a pelvic floor specialist? Urine frequency can be a trigger point (tension) which would need to be released. It isnt always a good idea to stretch/rk a tense muscle.
Also, your problem could be your pf isnt making its transition from a contracted state to its neutral position quick enough and i know from experience you can ‘think’ you in a relaxed neutral position but infact it is still slightly contracted!
Correcting a PF is often a little more complex than just kegels and stretching.
I do sometimes use RK,s but very sparingly.

[Paul789]

Also if you are doing the wrong stretches, or you hold your breath or slightly contract your muscles as you stretch then you will actually be tightening your pelvic floor.
To relax, gently breath in from your stomach and feel a ‘slight’ tension in your PF, (not a full kegel) then as you breath out ‘drop’ your PF into its neutral position. I do this 30 times a day. This will teach your PF a smooth transition from contraction to neutral.
I have found this ‘and learnt from a PF specialist’ far better than just brute force stretching a tense PF.

[omarlopz]

Yes, I have seen a pelvic floor specialist.

I would agree from my experiences too that RK/Hindi Squats alone do not relax the PF entirely (case in point spasms and underlying tension). Perhaps the issue is weakness of the PF? A weak muscle may be relaxed, but could be less controllable?

One of the exercises prescribed by the PT was to alternate between K & RK (as I have seen mentioned on this forum before), with a focus on speed and control of transition – is this what you’re describing here:

To relax, gently breath in from your stomach and feel a ‘slight’ tension in your PF, (not a full kegel) then as you breath out ‘drop’ your PF into its neutral position. I do this 30 times a day. This will teach your PF a smooth transition from contraction to neutral.

Also, to clarify, you mention breathing in to feel tension – is this by application of a K? as by default with diaphragmatic breathing, the tension of breathing in is what I current consider a RK…

I feel I have been holding my in-breath a little longer to feel the RK stretch, could you explain why this is not ideal?

When I did see the pelvic floor specialist the programme supplied consisted of first relaxing the PF through manual stretching of the PF by way of the anus (not exactly an enjoyable sensation) and stretches including child’s pose. Then building up strength in the PF muscle (all of this process was continually monitored via biofeedback device).

The issue doing this without a PT is knowing which point to start training strength via kegels – or am I missing the point?

The timing of strength training was also being discussed in this recent post

[Pegasus]

Hmm o you assume a high degree of competence and skill on behalf of the PT .
Many guys tell me finding a pt with any degree of knowledge of male pf is either difficult or impossible .

Do you have anything to say on this?

[Paul789]

Omarlopz, yes you have exactly described it. Its working a smooth transition from contracted to relaxed. This has to be a quick smooth movement. A sustained contracted pf will be weak, it needs to be relaxed and taught how to efficiently work. If you read on Dr Wise’s teachings or any ‘expert’ they should tell you this. Trigger points have to be released. For me this is the most important part of recovery. Unfortunately it is more involved than just stretching (rk) a tense muscle. Of course squats and yoga and stretches are essential.

[Pegasus]

Well I have seen guys get success without any form of internal work.

[Paul789]

Yes biofeedback is very useful, also a skilled therapist will have this information just using their finger. It is the contraction over time that causes the weakness. Often when this tension has been released and you have been taught to operate the smooth movement from contracted to rested state then you should be fine. You are teaching your PF to completely ‘drop’ to a rested state. With just RK’s you are stretching a tense muscle but unfortuantately you arent addressing the root cause of the problem . You will find guys that are ‘convinced’ they keep their PF in a rested state but in reality it is still slightly contracted. I always say learning to completely relax your PF is far more important than just reverse kegeling the tense muscle.

[Paul789]

Yes i agree. Its like many problems in that it depends on the severity.

Well I have seen guys get success without any form of internal work.

[Pegasus]

Rk is done with the muscle as relaxed as possible .

I am all for skilled therapists . I constantly CONSTANTLY told by guys onsite they are difficult or impossible to find do you have anything to say re that ? Biofeedback sounds a good idea if available.

Look quite frankly I think internal work is not required but if you are into it fine .