To light a fire you need all elements of heat, oxygen and fuel

[venom888]

I saw two different physical therapists about three years ago, I think when I was having back pain or something, and both gave me exercises for strengthening abs and glutes. No mention of APT specifically but I don't think I was aware enough to ask at the time. Then I read a lot on posturedirect.com about apt, sway back, etc and I fit APT. After deciding that I trained with a personal trainer for about a year and mentioned several times wanting to fix my APT and he never suggested I didn't have it.

I'm pretty confident I have APT, rounded shoulders, and nerd neck... It's a lot to fix.

I'm also confident my hip flexors are really tight. But I'm confused on the hamstrings.

[venom888]

Actually I guess it does make sense, as I remember now that with APT your hamstrings ARE tight, but just that you still shouldn't stretch them, because they're long and tight, whereas your hip flexors are short and tight. Your stronger hip flexors pull down on the front of your pelvis, causing the back of your pelvis to pull your hamstrings up and tight.

I guess the fact that my hamstrings are long doesn't mean that I'm going to be flexible for eg sitting up straight with my legs in front of me, as that movement would rotate your pelvis in such a way that it needs to pull your hamstrings longer still. It's not possible as far as I can tell to correct my posture out of APT while in that type of seated position to where there's slack for that rotation.

[skyisthelimitpe]

Actually I guess it does make sense, as I remember now that with APT your hamstrings ARE tight, but just that you still shouldn't stretch them, because they're long and tight, whereas your hip flexors are short and tight. Your stronger hip flexors pull down on the front of your pelvis, causing the back of your pelvis to pull your hamstrings up and tight.

I guess the fact that my hamstrings are long doesn't mean that I'm going to be flexible for eg sitting up straight with my legs in front of me, as that movement would rotate your pelvis in such a way that it needs to pull your hamstrings longer still. It's not possible as far as I can tell to correct my posture out of APT while in that type of seated position to where there's slack for that rotation.

Post a posture pic from the side then we can draw a conclusion from that

[Anthony_gerio]

Actually I guess it does make sense, as I remember now that with APT your hamstrings ARE tight, but just that you still shouldn't stretch them, because they're long and tight, whereas your hip flexors are short and tight. Your stronger hip flexors pull down on the front of your pelvis, causing the back of your pelvis to pull your hamstrings up and tight.

I guess the fact that my hamstrings are long doesn't mean that I'm going to be flexible for eg sitting up straight with my legs in front of me, as that movement would rotate your pelvis in such a way that it needs to pull your hamstrings longer still. It's not possible as far as I can tell to correct my posture out of APT while in that type of seated position to where there's slack for that rotation.

Sit on the ground, with you back on a wall straight, trying to make a 90 degree angle. There you have eliminated all the impact of the iliopsoas. If you cannot straighten your leg on the ground then it means you have tight posterior chain. Point your toes out (plantarflexion) and eliminate the impact of calves. If still feel uncomfortable straightening your legs, then you have tight hamstrings.
While your legs are fully straightened, dorsiflex your toes and try to lift one of your legs up, if it is very hard to keep your feet 5 inches about from the ground for 10 secs, then you have weakness issues with one of the hip flexors.

[venom888]

Sit on the ground, with you back on a wall straight, trying to make a 90 degree angle. There you have eliminated all the impact of the iliopsoas. If you cannot straighten your leg on the ground then it means you have tight posterior chain. Point your toes out (plantarflexion) and eliminate the impact of calves. If still feel uncomfortable straightening your legs, then you have tight hamstrings.
While your legs are fully straightened, dorsiflex your toes and try to lift one of your legs up, if it is very hard to keep your feet 5 inches about from the ground for 10 secs, then you have weakness issues with one of the hip flexors.

Thanks. So.... it's pretty bad ha. With my back against a wall, I can't get my legs anywhere near straight. I can fit my phone, standing up, between my knees and the floor, so like 6 inches. Flexing my toes forward lets me straighten out a little bit more but it only closes that gap by an inch or so. In this position I can raise either leg and hold 10+ seconds easily, but I can't raise my foot more than a couple inches off the ground, only a couple, because I can't straighten my legs. Holding my left leg up causes a little bit of pain in my lower back.

I know my left leg has a tighter quad / hip flexor, as I feel its stretch much easier, I fail the Thomas Test on that leg, and it's generally just less flexible (in multiple ways, including also at the inner thigh ie with a butterfly stretch etc). When I was working with a personal trainer, there's exercises we would do that would cause a real stretch in my quads that he said was due to them being tight, and otherwise I wouldn't experience that. He also said I had tight glutes and should foam roll them, but I don't remember how he concluded that. Maybe just because when we did roll them the first time they were super tender.

I don't know how this all figures in.

posture.jpg

That's actually with me lightly correcting my posture, as I took one photo natural and one consciously but lightly rotating my pelvis out of APT and squeezing abs a little.

If I look straight down, it looks like I have a major gut, and I can't even see my half my penis without leaning forward. If I do either of a) contract my abs or especially b) squeeze my glutes, my posture improves by a good deal. If I do both at once then it looks fine/normal from the front, and much better from the side (still have nerd neck). Yet after all this time training both, I haven't seen an improvement in the natural/effort-free posture. Just standing around, or even laying in bed on my side, I can tell that I'm in anterior rotation, with my butt sticking out, and I have to consciously fix it


EDIT: something that looks very similar to APT is Kyphosis. This looks a lot like me.

Kyphosis/ Lordosis

Alignment:
Forward head posture
Increased Thoracic Kyphosis (increase C shape of upper back)
Increased Lumbar Lordosis
A greater anterior pelvic tilt
Slightly Hyperextended knee

Tight/Overactive Muscles:
ITB
Hamstrings

Inhibited/Weaken Muscles:
Iliacus
Glutei

but still confused because Athlean-X (a very trusted YouTuber) and others say not to stretch your hamstrings if you have APT

[Anthony_gerio]

This is a relatively advanced APT.

but still confused because Athlean-X (a very trusted YouTuber) and others say not to stretch your hamstrings if you have APT

Yeah, Jeff is right about that.

You need to spend real attention to those lower ab layers. The glute ham connection is probably very weak. But my guess is that the main issue is, as you said, tight and immobile psoas and probably other flexors.
Hamstrings are both weak and under constant tension, don't stretch them.

[venom888]

k thanks. I'll keep working on it. Do you know anything about kyphosis? It looks like I have that and not just APT. I once asked my doctor about my posture and he said he thought it was "structural" and couldn't be fixed.

https://portsidephysiotherapy.com.au...nd-posture.png

[skyisthelimitpe]

I'm no doctor but I'm not sure why he would say that it was structural and couldn't be fixed. That sounds very odd to me but again I could be wrong. Based on your picture, you definitely have some muscular imbalances that need to be worked out.

What I would do if I were you is develop a solid gym routine, start a log, post that posture pic and the routine in the log, and give some daily updates with progress pics. Eat right, train hard, and watch your PreE diminish. I really recommend a log so everyone here can discuss with you any questions as you develop. At least now you know you have messed up posture and that now there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Good luck, I'm on the same journey and working on my imbalances has helped me drastically!

[Anthony_gerio]

k thanks. I'll keep working on it. Do you know anything about kyphosis? It looks like I have that and not just APT. I once asked my doctor about my posture and he said he thought it was "structural" and couldn't be fixed.

https://portsidephysiotherapy.com.au...nd-posture.png

It is the exaggerated arch in the back which has made the body to round the spin.
The kyphosis that needs surgery and specific trainings for kyphosis happens a bit lower than yours.

[venom888]

I'm no doctor but I'm not sure why he would say that it was structural and couldn't be fixed. That sounds very odd to me but again I could be wrong. Based on your picture, you definitely have some muscular imbalances that need to be worked out.

What I would do if I were you is develop a solid gym routine, start a log, post that posture pic and the routine in the log, and give some daily updates with progress pics. Eat right, train hard, and watch your PreE diminish. I really recommend a log so everyone here can discuss with you any questions as you develop. At least now you know you have messed up posture and that now there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Good luck, I'm on the same journey and working on my imbalances has helped me drastically!

I actually used to have a log, but my focus is on these longer-term improvements versus something like daily edging. So in my log I would update it just every few weeks or so. I generally work out 3x per week, with each workout including glute and/or hamstring work, and ending with several sets of ab exercises. I've been working out like this since mid 2018, and every quarter I take progress pics with the same series of poses for easy comparison. I have seen improvements in size (gained about 20 lbs -- still skinny), but nothing with posture. Also what I find is that I have built strength overall (adding weight etc) but ab workouts have progressed the least of everything. For instance, how long I can hold a hollow body or plank has remained almost constant. Which is weird considering I tire my abs out every workout.

I've also seen improvements in flexibility, with things like the butterfly stretch, frog stretch (by a lot - it's actually hard to even feel a stretch in this anymore), and thomas stretch. I'm actually close to or do pass the Thomas test now actually, though on the left I feel a strong stretch in what I think is my psoas (as it's deep, not quads), whereas I don't on my right.