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  • Implications

    I believe there may be implications, to discussion and research that mmo group members Pirate ,NP ,Panther and myself have done.

    Many men cause a quicker ejaculation by unconcious or at least involuntary kegals, they may even talk in terms such as spasm.
    This seems to be caused by too much yang,tenseness,hardness,focus ,especially in the pelvic floor(kegal) area.
    While some men can increase stamina merely by becomeing mindfull of kegals,many find this impossible.
    In fact ,some guys symptoms worsen upon starting a kegal routine.
    Standard kegals seem to increase strength,focus,hardness,yang and so can indeed worsen the problem.
    Reverse kegals seem to increase flexibility,relaxation,yin and so help this issue.
    If you have spasmed pelvic floor issues, I suggest kegal routines with over 50% reverse kegals.
    You might also be less focused during sex,zero in less on your dick, allow positive sensation to spread to your whole body.
    Turn off the porno tape in your head and the drive towards goal, allow yourself to become immeresed in the sea of sensation.
    Of course this can be practised solo or duo.

    i will post again in regards to delayed ejaculation.

    Through intert magic here is a link. https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...ical-cure.html
    Pegasus
    Administrator
    PE Gym Editor
    PEGym Hero
    Admin of the Month Mar 2015
    Last edited by Pegasus; 12-08-2010, 01:56 AM.

  • #2
    I think that you are onto something with this, Pegasus, and I would like to add a few thoughts.
    Kegels may initially make ejaculation control more difficult because stronger bc/pc muscles push more blood into the penis, make a better erection, and increase sensitivity. This, I believe, is a short term issue until you get used to your "new" better erection.
    Practicing kegels and especially reverse kegels promote awareness and control over those muscles as well as muscle development. This is huge. At first, you may not want to think about manipulating your muscles during sex. You may find it distracting from the pleasure. However, with practice, it becomes more natural and requires less conscious control.
    Think about kissing. When you are very new to kissing, you think a lot about what your lips are doing, what your tongue is doing, are your eyes open or closed, should you make a sound, when do I get to breathe, and a zillion other things. Pretty soon however, you don't think about any of that stuff as practice and confidence make it all second nature.
    The same is true with sex muscle control.
    Them's my thoughts, any who.
    Pirate Diplomacy:
    The art of telling someone to go to hell and having them look forward to the trip.

    Remember: If done right, there is no such thing as safe sex.

    Comment


    • #3
      I also have a few thoughts to add as one who had premature ejaculation problems. I had very tense bc/pc muscles and to a certain extent still do (still working on this). When I first kegeled during sex this pushed me closer to PONR and did not help me in gaining stamina. I believe that happened for a couple of reasons. First, I was always tense, focused and hard in that area - not relaxed - which caused me to be closer at the get go. My stamina is much better now, so much so, that I don't worry about it anymore.

      Also, when I started to pay attention to this issue much more of my attention was focused on my package which caused me to finish sooner. As I practiced more I could focus my attention on the rest of my body and get it involved in the fun too. The result is better control. There is something to the yin/yang thing - not doubt. For those that don't believe in the mystical that's okay. It's all part of your nervous system. When you are tense it makes it harder for the pleasure to spread around your body. Think of a garden hose - ever try to wash the car with a kink in the hose? Doesn't work to well. Then the pressure builds up behind the kink and blows.

      I think the more relaxed one is the easier it is for the feel good to travel into your stomach, chest, arms, legs, head and up the spine through your nerves. That's also why the deep breathing is helpful because it is part of relaxing.

      I'm still giving some thought to why a very hard kegel prevents ejaculation but still allows an orgasm. I think the muscle contraction prevents the prostate from releasing semen but doesn't prevent the orgasm. They use different muscles. Also, certain hormones are released when you ejactulate (oxytocin and prolactin) which make your dick soft. No ejaculation no hormones but you can still have an orgasm and keep a hard dick. Thus MMO. I've only done this once and it was the best sex I ever had.

      Anybody else have some thoughts - please share!

      Comment


      • #4
        When it comes to control during sex I believe everyone should try a natural progression. This includes practicing kegels
        Deep breathing to calm yourself.
        Learn your PoNR and your bodies signals (start and stop) and being aware of unconscious kegels.
        Eventually, learn how to control your kegels using reverse kegels to slow down the unconscious kegels.
        Learn the art of MMO.

        People who try the MMO first are going to have a hard time and not believe it is gonna work for them. Going through this progression will allow you to slowly but surely understand your body and the way it works. Key words there... YOUR body... everyone is different and you have to understand yourself first.
        Starting Size (09/2009): ~7"BPEL x ~5" MSEG
        Most Recent Measurement (08/13/2012): 8"BPEL x 5.5"MSEG
        Final Goal: When I'm told to stop.
        http://www.towelaroundtheworld.com/#/us

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh, I forgot to mention that I am gaining esteem for alternating kegels. (That is what I call it when I one a kegel then a reverse kegel then a kegel and so on.)
          I think they build control, focus, and muscle.
          Pirate Diplomacy:
          The art of telling someone to go to hell and having them look forward to the trip.

          Remember: If done right, there is no such thing as safe sex.

          Comment


          • #6
            Np, I think the idea is to eliminate unconcious kegal and replace them with concious ones. This increases control for mmo.
            The meaning of yang in this concept is spelled out ,so there is no need to believe in anything mystic. We are talking about a neuro muscular action as Panther says.
            Pirate and panther both mention issues with intergrating new skills and I think this is valid. However puting this aside for a moment, the concept of muscle imbalance in the pelvic floor, contribituting to premature ejaculation?
            if it does ,then alternating kegals are an exercise that will be much practised.

            Comment


            • #7
              I used to have a problem with premature ejaculation and until I started PE my main focus during sex was 1) not to ejaculate and 2) my own dick. Learning about Kegels and the concept of MMO changed all that. Looking back I realize that my problems were caused by involuntary Kegels and muscle spasms, most likely in combination with a tensed body and mind. Even today if I breath shallow and concentrate (here; the opposite of being relaxed) I can feel these involuntary contractions and spasms, the difference is I can now control them and also avoid them in the first place.

              Thus I believe that muscle imbalance (the cause), in combination with a tensed body and mind (the effect), contributes strongly to premature ejaculation problems (the result).

              It was just this week that I really started to incorporate Reverse Kegels into my PC muscle exercises, although I've done them to help myself relax during some edging sessions (love the feeling of a Reverse Kegel during edging close to PONR!). So alternating Kegel exercises might be good, but I have no experience regarding this.

              What really worked for me was...
              Understanding: Learning about the bodily process of orgasm and ejaculation (and what muscles are involved).
              Muscle exercises: Kegel exercises (the importance of strong PC muscles).
              Mind exercises: Breathing and relaxation (taught me to control my PC muscles as well as enjoy sex as a whole body/-ies experience).
              • The combination of the Muscle and Mind exercises in practice.

              I think that the three above are the keys needed to end premature ejaculation problems of this kind.

              I don't believe that Kegels will make things worse, on the contrary I believe they're all god, but I do believe that if you overtrain your PC muscles you will make things worse (at least temporarily). Of course all the increased blood flow and your harder penis will make you more sensitive (and that is a very good thing!) and this is why breathing and relaxation are so important; you want to be able and enjoy the new experiences your dick is giving you! If you just have strong PC muscles but have no idea on how to control and use them (I don't count squeezing them hard as control), then what is the point? And it might seem like a simple or silly thing to say, but just for me to really realize that my dick shouldn't be the one having sex was mind-boggling; it's a full body and mind experience!

              I will definitely report back regarding my experiences with the Reverse Kegels.

              Hope this was on subject, because the below might not be...

              In regards to my premature ejaculation issues: I can still ejaculate after a few minutes if I want to and sometimes we change positions during sex because I have more control in some than others. But I'm in control now, meaning I can keep going for more than one hour or an hour and a half (sometimes all the OTHER muscles in my body get tired though) and finish with one hell of a strong orgasm/ejaculation. During sex nowadays I can most often decide exactly when to come and sometimes I have miniature DOs or semi DOs... Have yet to really put myself into those and practice, I will do it but I will do it when I've reached my size goals.

              Oh, one funny thing about me and Kegels... As long as I'm real hard and aroused I can almost make myself ejaculate (at least I think so, but it might also be the road to a DO...) by doing a real long and hard Kegel. Anyone else experience this, that you can Kegel yourself to an ejaculation?
              "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again."
              - Maya Angelou

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                However puting this aside for a moment, the concept of muscle imbalance in the pelvic floor, contribituting to premature ejaculation?
                if it does ,then alternating kegals are an exercise that will be much practised.
                As I stated earlier I do believe that muscle imbalance or maybe just weak muscles contribute to premature ejaculation.

                I believe that if you're just starting out, one should always start with just regular Kegels and it's not until you have; a) isolated your PC muscles, b) have gained control over them and 3) some new strength, that you should move on and oncorporate Reverse Kegels. To me at least a Reverese Kegel is a bit harder and demands more muscle control. Does that sound reasonable?
                "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again."
                - Maya Angelou

                Comment


                • #9
                  Of course you can drive yourself to ponr with kegals conciously and in fact this is what most guys do unconciously.
                  If your kegal is too strong relative to your reverse and you do only kegals ,you will worsen the problem. In fact this commonly happens. Of course it is far easier to control muscles that are in basic balance.

                  Guys the concepts you are puting forward are all valid,but just to focus for a moment on the core new idea. Kegal contractions drive you towards ponr, this is well known. Some guys, when they understand this, can relax their pelvic floor and increase stamina instantly.
                  However many guys talk about kegal contractions being uncontrolable. Often when guys start a kegal routine with no reverse they get lowered stamina and talk about spasm kegals . This does not happen if they include reverse k in their routine. Now if this is just technical problems ,with learning a new skill and controling increased strength. I am on the wrong track.

                  I believe, we are looking at a physical imbalance within the pelvic floor.

                  Moreover, I believe this imbalance is worsened, by routines with high kegal % relative to reverse and improved by routines with high reverse %.
                  Of course this imbalance may not be the only issue and be symptomatic of a larger issue ,but it is subject to treatment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I get your point Pegasus. Let's isolate the issue, then this is what I'm thinking...

                    What you're saying means that within the pelvic floor there are muscles that gets activated when we kegel (contract) and other muscles that gets activated when we reverse kegel (expand), and that the "expandable" muscles are so weak that the "contractable" muscles take charge and this leads (partly at least) to premature ejaculation. Well, talking with my wife who is right beside me and last year in medical school, she says: "It sounds like a valid and logic theory, it could very well be that way...".

                    If you're correct the imbalance is worsened by only doing kegels or a high % of kegels and thus the other way around. And I believe you're correct. But still believe the reverse kegel is harder to accomplish and total control is needed of both "contractable" and "expandable" pelvic floor muscles.
                    "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again."
                    - Maya Angelou

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                      Np, I think the idea is to eliminate unconcious kegal and replace them with concious ones. This increases control for mmo.
                      The meaning of yang in this concept is spelled out ,so there is no need to believe in anything mystic. We are talking about a neuro muscular action as Panther says.
                      Pirate and panther both mention issues with intergrating new skills and I think this is valid. However puting this aside for a moment, the concept of muscle imbalance in the pelvic floor, contribituting to premature ejaculation?
                      if it does ,then alternating kegals are an exercise that will be much practised.
                      Yes, I agree with that. Although completely eliminating them is quite difficult.
                      Starting Size (09/2009): ~7"BPEL x ~5" MSEG
                      Most Recent Measurement (08/13/2012): 8"BPEL x 5.5"MSEG
                      Final Goal: When I'm told to stop.
                      http://www.towelaroundtheworld.com/#/us

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes np and you already do nearly 50% reverse,have unconcious kegals decreased since you reached this % ?

                        What has your experience been Pirate?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry Pegasus, I really have nothing to add though you asked.

                          I still haven't mastered reverse kegals yet. I tried a couple conscious kegals during sex the other night and really don' t feel that that feeling has happened "unconsciously" before to me.

                          Having been the wife for 10 years now though, I have found that sex has become more about the experience than the end result, so shoooting off early doesn't happen very often (though not that I have premature ejaculation problems). But once in awhile a sound of hers, or a facial expression will set me off, guess I should practice at being better during that time.
                          My progress notes

                          Goal: approx 7.25 EL x 5.7 EG - Length for me, Girth for her:biggrin1:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DownLow View Post
                            I still haven't mastered reverse kegals yet. I tried a couple conscious kegals during sex the other night and really don' t feel that that feeling has happened "unconsciously" before to me.
                            This might be a bit of topic, sorry about that.

                            DownLow, you might have gotten advice from the other people in this thread earlier. But the way I found out how to do reverse kegels was standing up during an edging session, as I was coming closer to the PONR I took a deep breath and pretty much did the same lower abdomen and PC muscle movement as I would when taking a dump, but focusing on purely my PC muscles. Result: completely relaxed my PC muscles, but I could still feel my dick getting harder.

                            Now that I've incorporated reverse kegels into my kegel routine (about 1/3) I find that doing them right after my kegels are easier, because the PC muscles are already filled with blood and isolating (applying Pegasus theory) the "expandable" PC muscles are a lot easier.
                            "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again."
                            - Maya Angelou

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pegasus, the theory you guys came up with makes very much sense! Couldn't stop pondering about it, so this may just be me ranting and if I'm not making sense or am off topic let me know.

                              Thinking a bit more about the imbalance and the "contractable" (kegel) vs. the "expandable" (reverse kegel) PC muscles theory. It seems to me that quite a bit of the muscles used would be the same, meaning that; when we contract the PC muscles using kegels there is a certain percentage of our muscles that contributes to the actual contraction and these are the "contractable" muscles, now when we are expanding the PC muscles using reverse kegels a certain percentage is doing the actual expansion, and it seems only reasonable that a large part of the muscles used are actually activated during both contraction and expansion. This reasoning is based on how I feel my muscles when doing kegels and reverse kegels, and it leads me to believe that the "contractable" and "expandable" muscles are "controllers" in a way - they tell the other muscles what to do and they react accordingly.

                              It also seems logic to me, since many have problems with the involuntary contractions and spasms, that the "contractable" muscles seems to be the easiest to train and use, maybe the contractive movement feels more natural. Now I don't believe that the contractions actually are more natural, but instead that the imbalance have been created by ourselves (i.e. since our early teens because of rushing masturbation, anxiety for being caught during masturbation or sex, et c.). Those muscles have been neurologically automated and taught to activate themselves when genital touch occur (since they're in a rush). Therefore the "expandable" muscles have become very passive, leading to further imbalance in our "controller" muscles.

                              Result? We loose control over our PC muscles.

                              Maybe people who don't suffer from this kind of premature ejaculation have a good balance between the "expandable" and "contractable" PC muscles; they're in a balanced PC muscle state. They work in harmony and balance and most people probably don't need to even think about these things, since the body is doing what it's suppose to be doing and they don't "need" aware control (but I do believe that everyone could benefit from aware balanced PC muscles). So for the rest of us...

                              Goal? Gain control over our PC muscles, restoring the balance.

                              Now if this rant is somewhat on track, reverse kegels are an absolute necessity in order to restore the balance. According to me this might not have to do with weak muscles, instead it has to do with regaining control that has been lost; control over both the expandable and contractable "controller" muscles. I believe that regular kegels helps us gain control over our contractable muscles and reverse kegels reactivates the passivated expandable muscles. So depending on how imbalanced one is, the routine needs to be adjusted in terms of regular vs. reverse kegel percentage.

                              Method? Combination routine of regular and reverse kegels.

                              Exactly how one should determine the percentage of regular vs. reverse kegels... have no clue as of now. Maybe there's no need for a specific percentage, a 50/50 might be just fine and over time both control and reactivation will be achieved and the body will hopefully balance itself out.

                              Any thoughts?
                              "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again."
                              - Maya Angelou

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