"From PE to MMO"- Minuteman's Orgasmic log

[Minuteman]

Simmilar to the lines that Pegasus said, you make hard orgasms happen, and you maintain a soft orgasm when it happens (now depending on the type of person it is for some easier to get in "the zone" for the soft wave, while for "most" it is easier to have a hard wave.)

Now, it happened to me but allot waker to have a soft wave orgasm between two distinct DO, wich is much different then having a hard wave. A hard wave is a crushing wave, a expolsion after explosion, while the soft wave is sort of like embrace after embrace.

Now as far as I experienced the soft wave is longer lasting time, while hard are longer than regular orgasms but shorter that soft wave, you really need to have a good stamina to endure a hard wave, at least i found it too powerful, i mean having a headache and week knees from the orgasm may sound cool (that is how i experienced it when i had had perforemed a hard wave), but i'm just not that type, i like the gentle calm waves of pleasure much more.

When you come in that situation next time, don't change anything for a while, a soft wave orgasm is like a pendulum swinging back and forth, back and forth until you are locked in, then you might do anything as long as you don't stop the stimulation and you simply wont come (but feel intense pleasure), after you stop however, you will feel like you ejaculated but didn't in other words it will take some time to get a hard on. Just as you noticed soft wave kind sneaks upon you, allow your body to "go on auto" for best results. Rocking your pelvis up and down or back and forth slightly might emulate the "wave" feeling.

Sometimes also, even if you are having a soft wave orgasm experience you won't be able to "lock in" but will go over PONR. The best thing that you can do is to accept every pleasure that comes to you, and not to lust to much after one specific. In the beginning (i am really starting to use this phase far to often) my wish to experience wave orgasm again was something that held me back, but i have overcome it and now accept anything that occurs (or at lest try) with same gratitude.

Since my libido is somewhat low in the winter i sort of hibernate now, having sessions maybe once in two weeks. But even so, every sessions that i had till now (after my libido drop) execept one where wery satisfying even if the wave orgasm don't happen at all.

Last night my session lasted approx and hour and half with two DO. Today (since last night i was to lazy to get out of the bed and have a regular ejaculation) today I multiple ejaculations.

By observing my body i have concluded that there is a sort of signal that you feel that marks the end of your ejaculation, it is a specific feeling right after some of the ejaculation where you feel slighty different, that "last spasm" feels somewhat different then the rest.

The interesting thing abut that is that even with DO it occurs and that that is probably the reason why most of us simply go limp after an DO, because even if you are holding your kegel as hard as you can there is still some movement of the muscles down there.

Now, i don't know how but i am able (in some ocassions) to circumvent that last spasm and just resume. I did it today by simply ejaculating then somehow stopping (yet I don't know how for now) then after that i remained hard and simply resumed mastubating.

The irony was that then experienced a sort of delayed ejaculation i simply could not ejaculate, but didn't feel that much pleasure so after some time of serious hard kegel fast mastubating i was able to ejaculate again but most of it was not sperm but the liquid that goes with it (which is logical since i just emptied my balls on the last one ) but this time i felt the "last spasm".

I call it the last spasm simply because i have no idea how to name it for now. Anyway it is the moment that your head suddenly becomes too sensitive. If you can observe that very moment and you might feel it the way i did.

But to be honest multiple ejaculation is just a bother, and i reallity it is pointless. But that last spasm can occur in DO, wich in a way makes it very important. I know of this because i felt the simmilar feeling during DO, and you just don't forget those fellings.

For now i will not delve to much upon this, since i am not in the mood. With the comming of the spring i might feel otherwise

[spanky]

A hard wave is a crushing wave, a expolsion after explosion, while the soft wave is sort of like embrace after embrace.

nice description.

Thanks MM, and very interesting observation re the "last spasm". I'll keep an eye out (so to speak) for that

Actually, the two times I've been on the edge of soft wave I thought I was close to PONR in arousal terms, but actually it turned out I was quite a long way off in real terms, as I could still carry on for another 20 mins without any trouble after it stopped. Perhaps it's as you say that my body was responding a little like I had actually had a small orgasm and backing off.

Talking of "knee tremblers", I've had a couple of regular orgasms like that - they really do stand out from the rest, at that level of heightened sensation I find it amazing how clear my recollection of it all is too. I'd have to wonder if making that the norm might spoil me and take some of that magic away. I'm probably worrying too much

[Minuteman]

It won't but in time you will see it as a regular thing, but that is if you do it alone, but in company there are just too much stuff that can happen that every experience can be made to be unique.

In both solo and with someone it is important not to go to much into the routine if you want to experience more and batter things, the routine dulls the sensations and limits the potential of the single orgasm, let alone multi orgasm, ponr teasing/dancing and other stuff. Which is in a way a paradox of interest on one side, one of the solution for premature ejaculation is repetition and preforming in the known "enviroment" to rid your self of anxiety and whatnot. On the other hand new experiences are also good for rising your pleasure to the next level, one should not be in the extreme but to try and dance on the middle line.

This is too much characteristic to a male and his sexuality, in a way since we are all ambitious in a sense, once we "overcome" something, it gets old fast, that is why many men tend to change partners allot. The trick is not to try and chase other women (but then again why not if you will it) but to overcome stuff within your self, it requires finding a woman how can satisfy you long enough. This is why one of the most atractive woman are those that can find that fine line of not giving herself to a man and knowing when to give it. If a woman does it too soon, in eyes of many (although it is stupid) she is "easy", but if she goes in the other spectre many man deem her "not worth all that bother". Many feel the "special" bond when is happens as a culmination, and not as an intro.


So in conclusion, a mind that seeks more will never be satisfied with the achievements even if they are grand, for he understands that there is more to it, a mind that satisfies itself too much in his achievements is prone to stagnation, but is enjoying the now. During my high libido I am the first person, during the low libido I am the second person, knowing how to make use of the most and knowing how to stuck a balance between the two promises a good life (in that area )

Another thing that is important is not to be think all the time about it (the ballance and stuff), for one can become a slave to it ,and that is bad too. Rather then thinking most of the time i found it better to act, observe then conclude and so on.

The thing i am mostly glad of here is that all this experience I have (and you will have i hope ) sticks and remains even after longer time of inactivity, because it says that my devotion to it during the time of high libido wasn't for naught.

Also you will note that, even after you think that you understand it all and preform it well you will begin to see more and more of the new and distinct stuff, you will be amazed on how much a normal masturbation and ejaculation can teach a men who knows where too look and what to look for. But even more satisfying is the fact that you begin to observe your body on a higher more detailed level.

Not too get to esoteric but, in time if you experience a longer soft wave (as I hope and think you will) session after that you will feel the wave in your body long after, and in a way you can recall the felling just by kegeling and concentrating. But what is even more, you will feel like you are fully connected with your body, in a same way you are when you feel pain, but without the pain and with the pleasure. That very moment for me was very (and almost as of same importance as one in the post 17) enlightening. And for that i am so much very glad that i have stumbled upon this site. Because I wasn't referenced to it is simply found it, and when i saw the Premature Ejaculation subforum i registered.

It brings a smile on my face when I read both your beginning posts and the posts now days in a way it makes me smile when I see just how much (in a good way) I have changed and matured during this topic in such short time.

[Pegasus]

Great posts.
You dan condition yourself with hard wave so as not to get headaches etc. However you are more suited to soft, so there is not a lot of point at this time. it is good that you have experienced hard though, it increases your understanding.
The last spasm thing is interesting.

[Minuteman]

I have noticed last night while masturbating that i still have the premature ejaculation reflex in some special cases, while i was able to ram trough it with DO with almost no problem, it lingers in my mind. It happened more several times trough my sessions. The trigger for me is masturbating/edging with a stronger grip (not insanely rip of your dick strong, but stronger ) when the reflex activates i am in the "premature ejaculation zone", in other words the feeling of PONR aproaches but i have much more difficulty dancing around it.

While it proves to be annoying, i think i will be able to turn it to my use, since it will allow me to explore that state better now and even maybe use it as the triger for a soft wave, since i sensed the potential. It most certainly feels like a reflex so now all i need to do is to find a way to manipulate that reflex better. I recall much before when i had this i was very frustrated now I am actually glad that i can face my problem in the face, I am glad that I have been able to mature enough to see it that way.

For now i am mostly not practicing kegels, on the account that i am to lazy and the other is that i want to observe myself more in this state and try to fix my problems with out to much reliance on kegels.

[Minuteman]

I started having fun in seeking for a solution for my premature ejaculation reflex that occurs when i use a stronger grip. I was able to use non-MMO methods in overcoming it, but it is still in early phase and it is not 100% guaranteed...

I noticed the start stop technique isn't that useful in this case since once the reflex starts i will always be close or at ponr, no matter the pause (of course if i get it go limp that is other story but sometimes even then), so rather than avoiding it (start stop) and crushing it (DOs MMOs) i wanted to overcome it but still retain the same or similar level of arousal, or somehow turn it into a soft wave.

I noticed also that during that reflex the involuntary kegels return, so one part of the solution was to make them into a conscious kegel holds (1-4 seconds) or doing a reverse kegel. Now since I didn't practice my reverse kegels (nor my regular) i used the version where i slightly flex my pelvic floor then do a reverse kegel (it is easier that way since you are able to focus on the area you want relaxed).

Another thing that helped was slightly opening my legs (not to much because that makes it tense), like when doing the split, because if you have bigger legs you might actually preasure the pelvic floor. I also seen that by changing the position it can level down the arousal (but still not overcome the reflex).

Anyway, it all (in this session) boiled down to the proper use of reverse kegels (forced reverse kegels where not helping me much) and leting the pressure/pleasure spread out (in other words while doing the reverse kegels, try to relax whole body and allow pleasure to run trough your body at the same time). I didn't go into wave orgasm although i could, but tried to reactivate the reflex with the same stronger grip masturbation, an the good news it that once overcame in a session the reflex doesn't return, so the crucial point is overcoming that. (although i wasn't able to go into a sort wave after that, some more fine tuning is required)

Now this reflex part is will be different for most premature ejaculationsits and it is mostly connected to your daily masturbation habbits. I have recalled that when I was younger and trying to speed up my ejaculation i would tense and clamp my buttocks increase the speed and the firmness of my hand, in time that movement probably became a reflex for body. Of course that isn't my only premature reflex but this is the strongest and easiest to spot and, for me, the one that is most difficult to overcome.

Of course this is only first session of this kind, in future i will try to refine it more and to find better methods for overcoming this solo, for duo however you are on your own for now

[Pegasus]

Another good post.

[Minuteman]

Two interesting thing I noticed today that are, in a way, pretty obvious but need to be noted.

First is that after the ejaculation and the spasm finishes it is really hard, for me, to preform kegels with the same strength and accuracy as before the ejaculation. This last a good 5-10 minutes after depending on the strength of the ejaculation. So in order to determine how strong your kegel needs to be (since something similar happens during DO) in order to stay hard after DO, this might be a good rule to go by, if your kegels feel very weak and ineffective during that phase than you need to build up more kegel strength in order to have a better DO and stay hard afterwards.

It is very logical if you think about it, since in a way DO is a ejaculation (actually the emission) in one phase, so the same thing should occur and your kegel hold will start weakening.

The other thing is that the more clean, proper DOs you have in session the more power/energy/ you will feel after when you ejaculate (either full body orgasm and ejaculation of regular ejaculation). Because as you have noticed after a good ejaculation you feel sleepy. Well after at least one DO and ejaculation you will feel energized.

This also makes me think that many people who don't perform DOs but still feel energized after and ejaculation, maybe performed an unconscious DO or something similar.

This also reminds me of the next thing. Since i had a wave orgasms this morning, i noticed that i can't be in the wave for very long time, I think that is because my kegels strength isn't sufficient so i can't achieve a sort of kegel cramp/lock. Either that or my pelvic floor became unbalanced, or something third

I write this stuff down since I (we) tend to forget the stuff like that and it is good to have it noted down somewhere, since I do reread this topic form time to time in order to remember the important parts, to motivate myself, and to learn for my eventual mistakes.

[Minuteman]

Today I had a very satisfying session lasting somewhere around 35 minutes. It had done wonders to relax me.

I started my session in the regular way using harder grip to rush down to ponr and then i just started experimenting with whatever I could come by.

First of all I used the start/slow technique instead start/stop (in other words slowing down but trying not to stop), but not alone but in combinations of:

- Turning a involuntary kegel into voluntary (1-4 second hold)
- Preforming a revese kegel (by doing a slight kegel, then a slight reverse kegel)
- Changing the hand/grip way (in sex it would be like changing the angle of penetration)
- Changing presures (I wonder is this the same as telling you girl to relax or clench the kegel )
- Changing the position
- Breathing freely (in other words i breathed the way I wanted in the moment in opposition of breathing like "you should be", letting go)

All this things combined enabled me to overcome the reflex and after a while to go into a long and gentle series of wave orgasms. I really can speak enough of how much I enjoy those waves and how much they relax me and bring a sense of happiness. It seems like much but it ain't.

After I overcame the initial reflex, it didn't come back (at least not in the same way), this is very good news. I used the strong and even stronger grip, with changing the speeds and what not, but it didn't come. Of course i could trigger it again if I really forced myself but it required some hard work, plus when i reactivate it goes away much faster, in other words I am able to overcome it with greater ease.

Now i have some interesting notations that will help you how to recognize the wave orgasms, and how to recognize when you will have better control. I have written before about the kegel lock during the wave. The better way to identify it is to try and do a kegel. Interesting thing is that you feel like a kegel is distant and much weaker, but not "I just ejaculated" weak like discussed before.

Also not that a wave orgasms are sometimes so low in intensity that you might even not notice it, but when you feel that a kegel is sort of distant/far away (or alterative would probably be totally relaxed and locked) you will know that you are "in the zone". With time as you kegels become stronger you will feel the waves much better.

Also note that a the more fit you are the better you will feel them and overall all orgasms. Just note of the balance, because if you are overtrained it won't be like that. A balance of fitness/strength and relaxation is required. So yoga could come in handy here.

I note this because now I am totally not fit (relaxed yes), but during the summer and during my first discoveries of my DO and waves I was In much better condition and In much better balance, and have had kegel exercises, so my "gentle waves" where mind blowing then, since i was more attuned to my body trough exercises and yoga.

One thing i mentioned before, and something that should be said is that people with premature ejaculation actually will be more proficient in the DO/MMO sector (in other words much faster learners) since being at PONR is more or less your everyday erected state, and since we come much quicker there is more opportunity to be able to observe and correct so don;t lose heart. This doesn't mean that others ain't much but it gives us an edge :P

[Minuteman]

Just a quick thought and something to think about.

One of the ways to beat a habit is to create a counter-habit, a habit that can replace the current habit but be more beneficial to the person.

So, let's say that counter-habit might be a minimum of 20 min edging with no full stop, and try to do that EVERY time.

It sounds hard but in a way it isn't. As you may know habits are in a way meant to spare us of the every day generic and let us focus on the new and enjoyable stuff (maybe ). So maybe the first two weeks, or even a month this will be hard, but as you do it and as it becomes a habit it will be easier even welcome.

Note that routine and habit doesn't always need to be the same things (as it usually is, a cute parallel to ejaculation and orgasm). Routine is done with little or no mental presence, and as we know for premature ejaculation, it might bi beneficial sometimes but that isn't what we are looking for. Habit refers to making the brain feel safe in that. Because we as creatures tend to gravitate towards stability and safety.

So try to create a habit but don;t make a routine out of it

The point of a better implemented habit is to make just a very small part of your sexual life a thing of habit, but never allow the entire act to be taken over by habit, because it will become a routine and not only will you feel less and less and so will your partner.