"From PE to MMO"- Minuteman's Orgasmic log

**Minuteman** · 01-20-2013

Originally Posted by vetoo

minute man when may i ask a question ??

when you clench the kegels very hard before ejaculation so make perfect DO

so you will have orgasm or partial orgasm & no ejaculation and the penis is still hard

but my question how long will it take to reach another orgasm are they just few minutes or seconds or it will take a suitable period of time to have urge again and make another perfect DO ??

thanks in advance

Short answer:

You can have partial orgasm, orgasm itself isn't quantiative, you can have partial ejaculation or partial DO.

If you actually have a perfect DO you can get the urge right away or if you slow down the tempo then later, how ever since you had an orgasm you will be able to exert more control over your next perfect DO.

Long answer:
https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...asm-guide.html

**vetoo** · 01-20-2013

thanks alloot Sir

**sixrod** · 01-21-2013

Let me share what I just wrote in my progress log thread:

I'm kind of semi-MMO. Something like a year and a half ago, I started training for MMO with Barbara Keesling's and Mantak Chia's books. Both materials suggested results in a couple of months at most if you committed to the exercises. I didn't really like the mystical aspect of Chia but did read the book and there's obvious similarity to the western medicine approach of Keesling. However, I had trouble understanding why they both suggest a heavy kegel at PONR when it's obvious at least to me kegeling is a fast-lane to PONR and beyond.

I've been stuck here for a year now: When I reach PONR and kegel, I could easily hold it strength-wise, but it's the nervous system that takes control. I can feel it like it twists my arm, the PC just relaxes into that pulsating mode and I "leak". It's kind of half-way there, it's a full-blown orgasm all right, but I can continue with just a dip in EQ and arousal scale.

On a good night it just takes me back to 6-7 on the arousal scale and things are good. On a bad night, I fall to 3 at most and for a while I get that post-ejaculatory "why bother" feeling with the effect on EQ as well. If I just keep on thrusting, I recover in a minute and I'm good to go for another orgasm, by which time I just don't have the strength or willpower to push my luck for a third round and I don't even try to make it a DO.

I've done my share of kegel/rk training and I've gotten pretty good at isolating the front from the back. In fact this might have been my downfall.

You see, I was just recently edging, and for some odd reason while stumbling around PONR, I did a hard back kegel. Boy did it feel strange. I didn't get that prostate-clenching "too-much-to-handle" rush over the edge like I do with front kegel, and I was so close to having a complete DO without even the need to stop stimulating. It wasn't a complete DO but much closer to what Chia/Keesling describe what should happen when you kegel hard at PONR.

So now I'm thinking, what if WE over here at PEGym have overanalysed the PC/BC system and what Keesling and Chia are talking about actually is about clenching the back kegel, ie. the anus region, rather than the front kegel, which simply seems to overstimulate the prostate even more?

**Pegasus** · 01-21-2013

Umm a simple kegel including both front and back might help you.

**sixrod** · 01-21-2013

Of course you may be right. It might be just a front/back balance thing and in the future it might be useful to include the front kegel more.

It just never made any sense to me why the authors of those MMO books recommend kegeling when the front kegel is a rush towards and past the PONR for me, and several other people have reported a similar effect as well. Now if they actually mean a back kegel, it suddenly makes sense.

Concentrating on strength and control of the front kegel naturally seems to be the obvious solution, as it directly feels affecting the penis rather than the anal region. But now thinking about it, it actually might be exactly the back kegel that "closes the valves" and prevents semen from advancing too far, leading to a retro or a partial ejac and consequently into the post-ejaculatory state. "Closing just the front gates" by an isolated front kegel might make it just a partial ejac, which would explain the ability continue, but with a dip in EQ and arousal state.

Now this is just my own interpretation, but it would make sense why I haven't been able to progress into true consistent DOs, and yet these couple of times lately that I've gone past PONR holding a more rear-biased kegel I've been able to continue stimulation while having an orgasm, and I've been able to maintain the high arousal state and EQ as well.

Now at some point I've read through all the MMO discussions on this site but remind me, is front/back kegel directly related to the distinction between PC and BC muscles? PC for rear and BC for front?

**Minuteman** · 01-21-2013

As you said overanalyzation is generally not a good thing.

What I gathered from the reading of your observations is that the way you activate a kegel hold just doesn't work. I would suggest using towel raise exercise (described in more detail in dry orgasm guide). For me the kegel hold done that way feels more complete.

Also one of the ways it can be done is by doing a kegel hold and then doing a root lock hold (back kegel hold) on top of it.

In intensive situations it is rare to be able to completely isolate front kegel from back kegels therefore where you try to do a back kegel during a DO attempt you get a more complete kegel hold since the back kegel hold will affect the kegel hold and vice versa.

As for the "shuting out the valve with back kegel hold", well it seems unlikely based on the muslce it self and it's location the the actual tubes that sperm goes to. For example try stopping your urination with a back kegel, and you will understand how it works.

Also here are some pictures for the reference.

http://i46.tinypic.com/zk4m7k.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2vjboue.jpg

**jcarrier** · 01-21-2013

Back kegels = reverse kegels?

**sixrod** · 01-22-2013

Trying not to overanalyze but as misunderstanding the anatomy involved in MMO has taken me further from my goal, understanding the anatomy should put me back on track, doing the right exercises.

Minuteman, I believe the PC wraps all the way around and there's actually just an opening through which the membranous part of the urethra runs. The ejaculatory ducts connect to the prostatic urethra which is above the the membranous part, within the prostate. BC on the other hand surrounds just the penis.

http://home.comcast.net/~wnor/malepelvicdiaphragm.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iosus-Male.png

Note however that this is not in contradiction to what you and Pegasus are saying and I'm definitely not one to argue with experienced guys like you, in the end it just might be that a complete PC + BC contribution is required to have a fully controlled DO & MMO.

However, involving the BC squeeze (=the "front kegel") never did anything but make things worse for me near PONR. Now these few experiments I've had time to run emphasizing the PC squeeze (=the "back kegel") have been much closer to complete success. This would also explain why in the beginning of my MMO journey I actually performed better than later once I had learned to isolate the BC and it actually just heightened the arousal. Now understanding the anatomy better, it's quite obvious: Squeezing the BC contributes to further the erection and thus stimulates the nerves in the penis, enough to tip over the PONR spectacularly and lose all control.

It would also explain that when literature instructs to perform a hard kegel at PONR and it is often misinterpreted as the BC squeeze, many people on this forum report this just makes it worse. If literature in fact does mean the PC squeeze specifically, things start to make sense. I think at some point there was some kind of general consensus that when PC is mentioned in literature, it means the overall group of pelvic floor muscles and BC is really the key to success. I thought "I can do that" and set on my way to have the PC (anal region) relaxed when performing a hard (front) kegel with the BC.

In addition, it seems what we've subconsciously learned to perform in our teens to "get there quick" has been the BC squeeze (as it heightens arousal) when we would need to work on our PC instead (to achieve ejaculatory control).

I think the pieces fit rather well in this theory.

jcarrier, reverse kegel is the "pushing" sensation while normal kegel is the "squeezing" sensation. Front and back just refer to the emphasis being on the BC or PC muscles, with emphasis on BC (bulbospongiosus or bulbocavernosus) you feel the most effect in your penis proper, while with emphasis on PC (pubococcygeus) you feel it around the anus.

http://scientia.wikispaces.com/pelvi...+lecture+notes

**Minuteman** · 01-22-2013

Originally Posted by sixrod

Trying not to overanalyze but as misunderstanding the anatomy involved in MMO has taken me further from my goal, understanding the anatomy should put me back on track, doing the right exercises.

Minuteman, I believe the PC wraps all the way around and there's actually just an opening through which the membranous part of the urethra runs. The ejaculatory ducts connect to the prostatic urethra which is above the the membranous part, within the prostate. BC on the other hand surrounds just the penis.

http://home.comcast.net/~wnor/malepelvicdiaphragm.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iosus-Male.png

Note however that this is not in contradiction to what you and Pegasus are saying and I'm definitely not one to argue with experienced guys like you, in the end it just might be that a complete PC + BC contribution is required to have a fully controlled DO & MMO.

However, involving the BC squeeze (=the "front kegel") never did anything but make things worse for me near PONR. Now these few experiments I've had time to run emphasizing the PC squeeze (=the "back kegel") have been much closer to complete success. This would also explain why in the beginning of my MMO journey I actually performed better than later once I had learned to isolate the BC and it actually just heightened the arousal. Now understanding the anatomy better, it's quite obvious: Squeezing the BC contributes to further the erection and thus stimulates the nerves in the penis, enough to tip over the PONR spectacularly and lose all control.

It would also explain that when literature instructs to perform a hard kegel at PONR and it is often misinterpreted as the BC squeeze, many people on this forum report this just makes it worse. If literature in fact does mean the PC squeeze specifically, things start to make sense. I think at some point there was some kind of general consensus that when PC is mentioned in literature, it means the overall group of pelvic floor muscles and BC is really the key to success. I thought "I can do that" and set on my way to have the PC (anal region) relaxed when performing a hard (front) kegel with the BC.

In addition, it seems what we've subconsciously learned to perform in our teens to "get there quick" has been the BC squeeze (as it heightens arousal) when we would need to work on our PC instead (to achieve ejaculatory control).

I think the pieces fit rather well in this theory.

Feel free to contradict as much as you want, I learn from you as much as you learn from me, alternative aproaches, constructive criticism and quenstionings should always be encouraged.

My experience is that a kegel hold makes me have a DO, how ever it is a more complete kegel hold than people normaly do, which I achieved by doing towel raises since it activates the same set of muscles needed for a DO. But while our approach might be different it doesn't mean either is wrong, if it works for you then you should do it.

My suggestion to you is to keep at it until you can be satisfied with your DO performance then post either here or create your own topic since that way more people will pay attention to your findings. Mayhap your problem is over-isolation of your kegel (again, try out the towel raise and see how your pelvic floor muscles act, if you have sufficient strength do the same movement while attempting a DO and see how it works out for you).

jcarrier, reverse kegel is the "pushing" sensation while normal kegel is the "squeezing" sensation. Front and back just refer to the emphasis being on the BC or PC muscles, with emphasis on BC (bulbospongiosus or bulbocavernosus) you feel the most effect in your penis proper, while with emphasis on PC (pubococcygeus) you feel it around the anus.

I noted this several times but the front and back kegel doesn't refer (at least I don't see it as so) to BC or PC muscles excusevly, but front and back pelvic floor movement. In more detail, the kegel movement is what bobs your erect penis, while root lock (back kegel) is what moves your anal sphincter muscles.

It is the medical need to define those muscles or muscle but in fact most of the time it is a combination of muscles we talk about here that we use in different ratios (or maybe better, parts), so to avoid confusion and we tend to (or at lest I) label them as kegels, root locks etc.

With more exercising you will even notice that you can perform left and right pelvic movement as well (side kegels?) although their utitlity is less important or more precise, less explored. What muscles we use there is less important then the area or movement we isolate over the time. In other words I tend to do a kegel by trying to clench the muscles in my front pelvic area, regardless of the muscle or muscles names, if you get my point.

**hoochiNn** · 02-09-2013

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Y
Alex in this topic has a pretty interesting idea, that I think most of the time might not be that good of the idea. But since I am somewhat known for spending way to much session time in the PONR area (since I just love the sensations there, and not to mention soft wave orgasms that tend to occur if you hang long enough) that I might have conditioned my body to go to ponr faster (not as fast as before I came here mind you) then "usual" in since I'm drawn by sensations. So by doing what he recommended there, in other words having sessions that only last till the very first far sign of coming ponr, I might be able to condition my body to want to stay in that before-PONR-area more.

MM can you explain more this part please? Its a wrong idea to stay near to the PONR all time while edging? (I mean, when you feel you are getting near the PONR, you slow the strokes, try to retain IK and you try to last longer)