"From PE to MMO"- Minuteman's Orgasmic log

[Minuteman]

MM can you explain more this part please? Its a wrong idea to stay near to the PONR all time while edging? (I mean, when you feel you are getting near the PONR, you slow the strokes, try to retain IK and you try to last longer)

No it is not, but too much of one thing (any thing) can cause some problems or can wire your brain to rush to PONR in order to get more pleasure and in some very intense situations (for example sex) this can prove problematic since you would have harder time controlling stuff.

The best way is to enjoy both parts as equally as you can (enjoyment here is the key word, since the brain gets used better on the stuff you find enjoyable), one way you can do that is to spend more time edging before PONR.

So rather than "when you feel you are getting near the PONR, you slow the strokes, try to retain IK and you try to last longer" try slowing down even before that, or better yet start slow and keep it slow and try and enjoy the sensations even before you come to PONR.

I hope I clarified it.

[Minuteman]

Wet dreams are the body's way of cleaning out the pipes when we don't do so, it is an maintenance process that happens when you sleep and usually it is followed by some sort of symbolic dream (symbolic in a way that you are usually doing something similar in the dream, like having sex or masturbating etc).

Wet dream can also be used as a tool in finding out how many times you should ejaculate during a given period, as we get older that period gets longer and longer and with frequent masturbation it usually stops occuring since there in no need for it unless a person abstinates for a longer periods of time. Which is what I have been doing mostly since I was not in the mood ( I have such periods) and was busy with something else.

From what I experienced there are two types (so to speak) of wet dreams, those that make you ejaculate and go flaccid usually accompanied by a mess and a feeling that I have been used, and by my own body no less (one could argue that that could be a sort of a motivational tool in order to make you ejaculate more) mixed by a general irritation that you now have to either get up from the bed and clean you or go to sleep while being covered in it.

The second type is when you just partially ejaculate and stay hard, on the first sight it remind of a partial DO but it is very much different. The good part of this is that you don't have the "I have been used" feeling and the mess is not that big.

So what I did last night was acting upon it. After being waken up by an partial ejaculation caused by a wet dream instead of going back to sleep I decided to masturbate since I wanted to see how will my body act, and a little bit as an infantile act of vengeance upon my body

And the result was rather curious. The thing is that while you masturbate after a partial wet dream (to make it shorter) your ejaculation reflex is messed up, while you can ejaculate again if you really keep at it, if you are not to aggressive you can last long.

Now as I was masturbating for a while everything was pretty normal, however since I just partially ejaculate it was quickly at ponr, but as I approach it and uncomfortable strong sensation that was mixed in the pleasurable sensations that usually happened when near PONR, this sensation was specific and I had the feeling that I am going to ejaculate right now, but I didn't, the feeling intesified as I continued but I still didn't ejaculate, after that I stoped for a while and tried again only to have the same sensation.

And then I understood that I am able to extend the PONR.

Let me clarify that:

As you may know the Point of no return is a point in time, and a rather small one, after witch you can't stop the ejaculation (well you can't if you don't attempt a dry orgasm etc). While while masturbating you might feel that the PONR is in fact longer that is mostly and illusion brought by the sensations you feel, by every body know that a PONR has a very typical (if I could put a color on it it would be white) sensation, that sensation is the PONR.

The reason I am sure about this is because I had the time to observe that typical sensation in a much longer window, thanks to the fact that I had a partial wet dream. To describe that feeling more closely it is much similar to that, that you experience when you have ejaculated and try and masturbate again, but not that much intense, but intense still, intense enough that it almost overpowers your pelasurable sensations. I mostly kept at it because I wanted to observe it more.

The PONR sensation is not a pleasurable one as much as it is an urge and that makes it very uncomfortable, when it passes fast (as it usually does) it feels like and apex of your sensations but if you say longer it is more like a blinding, hurting light. I over dramatize it in order to paint a better picture, but it isn't far from the truth.

After that I went on and ejaculated, the orgasm was strong but not that pleasurable. Probably because of the build up pressure cause by the exteded PONR.

Exteding the PONR is not something I would like, I simply don't like that sensation, while extending just-near-the-PONR feeling is mostly what I like, and has been a goal of my many sessions (trough soft waves to a simple start and stop).

While it might not be something that will aid me in my path to MMO (and I might be wrong of what I felt) it was an interesting observation.

[BTA]

When I get time, I need to read this thread from start to finish. Some great posts in here MM!

[Minuteman]

The problem with premature ejaculation is also that it occurs in the moment where we are most vulnerable of sorts. And there is no way that when being in a highly aroused situation you can recall all the stuff you have learned here. I mean there is a lot info on there forums, so much in fact that we sometimes spend much more time here then actually fixing out problem, but that is the topic for another day.

Today I have an idea how to recall some of the most important stuff you should be aware of during sex or edging and how to actually do it.

So lets begin by indentifying the most important stuff you should do during an intense session.

First of all you have to go gradual. it is simply a thing we premature ejaculationsts must do, at least in the beginning of our journeys of fixing the premE. Gradualness during edging and sex means you should do stuff slower in a sense that the phases before the actual penetration (in case of sex) should take longer.

Secondly we need to clear our heads of most of the thoughts. The bad way to do this is, as I mentioned, thinking about numbers and grandma's, the good way is via the sensual distraction. It means that you should focus on the things you feel with your hands and body. You should feel your touch on your partners skin, your lips on his/hers etc. This takes practice but it is important.

Third thing is to remember to breathe and not to hold your breath. Deep breaths are a good idea, but don't make them too deap.

Fourth thing to do is to relax your pelvic floor.

And that is more or less it, of course i probably have missed some stuff out but that is not the point, the point follows:

Even though this all doesn't seem that long or complicated to remember, it is a known fact that it is very hard to remember during sex, and the simple fact that sex filled with so many sensations and things only makes it hard and even problematic to recall some stuff written here.

What you should do is develop a certain mantra or something like that.

For example for all here you can go with something like. GRADUALNESS (or GO SLOW), TOUCH, BREATHE, RELAX.

So while you are having sex just try and repeat those words from time to time just do it slowly and of coruse not out-loud but within (inner monologue). When yo do that your body will recall what you need to do.

When you say gradualness (or GO SLOW) you will slow down what you are doing and make it longer. When you say touch you will concentrate on the touch and sensations. When you say breathe you will pay attention to your breathing for a while. And finally when you say relax, you will try and relax either your whole body, or your pelvic floor or if you are unbable to do that you should try changing the position and so on.

As you can see this technique is very simple, so simple that it might just work for you in the high stress environment. The biggest problem you will face here is to how to actually remember to say the "mantra".

One of the ideas is to try and have a trigger of sorts. For example when ever your partner moans strongly or says something that he/she usually says at some point during sex then start the mantra.

Anyway this is just one of those ideas. While I have tested this in high-arousal situations but during edging and wave-orgasms etc I can attest to it working for me in those situations, however when it comes to sex that is a little bit of an uncharted territory for me so I leave the exploration and experiments up to you. I am of course not using the exact "mantra" outlined here but a simple "slow down" or something like that just to remind me to "check things up". So try it out, it might just work for you.

[Minuteman]

Breathing during sex or edging session affects the rise and the drop of arousal much more than people know. We all know that we "should breath" but it is hard to see the point if you don't have a way to actually prove this to yourself. So here is a little trick/exercise/gimmick you can do to really feel the difference.

First of all edge until you reach PONR try not to rush it but there is not need to take it to slow, once you get the feeling that if you stimulate your penis a few times more you will ejaculate try this. When you thrust/pull back the skin breath out trough your mouth with a mid-to-strong breath then as you pullback/roll your skin back try to breath in deeply with a mid-to-strong breath. Try to make the breathing more passionate in order to have a stronger effect.

Now try to reverse it, while thrust/pull-back-the-skin motion breathe IN trough your mouth then as you pullback/roll-your-skin-back breathe OUT trough your mouth.

You should notice that one of those will rise your arousal and other will lower your arousal, and it becomes much easier to notice since your are doing it near PONR. Felling this trough the act will tell your brain and your body just how important breathing is. Not to mention that you can use this technique to really affect your arousal.

So,
near PONR
thrust - breath out trough the mouth, pull - breath in trough the mouth LOWERS arousal
thrust - breath in trough the mouth, pull - breath out trough the mouth RISES arousal

at least it is how it works for me.

[Minuteman]

You might have noticed while watching porn that at some point during the session male partner might focus intently on her eyes or a specific part of the body while trying to thrust faster or stronger. This is actually useful for raising the stamina especially very close to PONR.

In the previous post I wrote about the use of a relaxed/sensual breath out as a method of lowering the arousal, and relaxed/sensual breath in while thrusting for increasing the sensations and arousal. However breathing IN can be used as a method of enduring the arousal too by mixing the forcus at one point noted in the paragraph above and a specific kind of breath in.

I tend to call this breathing technique "Determination breath".

Usually during sex or edging session one's eyes are relaxed and the gaze is almost dream like this allows the person to focus on the sensations within and enjoy them. But if you focus and start looking at one point with your full attention (like when you are waiting to see something happening or when aiming to hit something ) no matter what the actual point is you will kinda feel like you have been "brought back" in the now, in the reallity while less being affected with what happens within you. I noticed this by accident several years ago when I was masturbating and there was some loud noise. When I heard it all my attention got focused on one spot that I thought the loud noise came from, then I determined that it doesn't concern me (by the way all the time that was happening I was masturbating) but I noticed that I could last longer. From that time I have had trouble actually recreating those circumstances, and generally over the time I forgot about it, only to remember about it yesterday when I was experimenting with different breathing techniques and its effects on me.

When edging for longer sessions usually mostly near PONR I noticed from time to time that I have those moments of extreme clarity when even though I feel the high sensations leading me to ejaculate I was simply able to shrug them off, the problem was that that effect tended to last sometime around 1-10 seconds. I could do this but breathing IN trough the nose using my chest and shoulders rather than my abdomen, to try to describe it better it is one of those breathing ins that you do when you want to for example punch something, pounce (that kinda sound weird as an example maybe) or simply lift something up. The breath in does not need to be very forceful, but you have to get sort of a determination feeling out of it. I find it better with breathing in trough the nose, however you can try out breathing trough the mouth too, however you should use your upper body (chest, shoulders) for breathing in in order to reduce the inflation (and the added pressure to your pelvic floor thereby making the urge to ejaculate greater) of your lower belly.

Last night partly by accident I combined those two effects, the eye focus and the breath in trough the nose using my chest and shoulders. I manged to increase the lasting time to a solid minute while being at the very edge of PONR with the additional pressure of my bladder that filled up since I had a longer edging session (somewhere around 45 minutes to an hour). For those who have been in that situation (full bladder, one two thurst to ejaculate) know how strong the urge is.

When focusing you can focus on absolutely anything, but you need to full focus on that as if there is nothing else than that. That huge shift of attention aided by the breath in that helps you stay in that mood longer. Sometimes that minute (at least for now since I plan on further testing it) can create a lot of difference.

To help you focus you can scowl but don't do it to long since it will make your eyes hurt (and your partner will kinda feel weird if you are focusing on her gaze with your scowl) but it will help get the feeling. Once you have it don't you can use other senses instead of with each other.

For example you can focus your hearing on the clock ticking, or your nose on a specific smell, whatever can get your full attention.

So,

Focus at one point (anything will do, a wall, partners eyes anyting that you can really focus on) with your eyes then breath in trough your nose using your chest. Try it out, it just might help.

[Minuteman]

Many of the techniques you see here are so plainly obvious that it seems pointless to even write about, but even so most of these techniques never occur to a person even though later on it seemed funny it didn't (I am the prime example when it comes to that). One of those is called outer rim edging technique I will try and describe in this post.

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The name is based on this coin. As you can see there are kind of two rims, outer and inner. The inner rim space is the past the PONR basically it is a void (the inner rimt itself is PONR). The space between the outer and inner rim is where most pleasurable sensations are. And the outer rim is that space where you don't quite feel the pleasurable sensation yet or feel them but not in such high intensity.

So when truing out and edging session with this technique here is what you do.

Fist try to get fully erect with as little as touching as possible (alternative you can jump start it with porn, but then stop watching). It is important that you get in the most comfortable position you can so that you can feel every and any change in the sensations and arousal. Then start edging with medium pace and with not too much but not too little lubricant to choice. As you edge the moment you feel that the sensations rise just a little slow down your pace a notch, as you feel the sensations subsiding rise your pace an notch but alway being sure the the top "speed" is the medium pace.

The idea basically, using the coin to illustrate, is to stay on the outer rim itself as long as possible without stopping (lowering the pace as slow as needed is allowed). Of course it wont last forever but by doing it you will condition your body not to rush to PONR.

Also once you actually get near PONR (the inner rim itself) you can try out any other techniques that are used near PONR. This way you will develop both inner and outer rim techniques.

It seems simple but with this picture in mind it is very effective. Yesterday when I tested out this technique I lasted about an hour. The bad part is that because of the strength of the orgasm I had later on I have had trouble getting asleep but it was worth it.



==============================


Speaking of inner rim technique in this post sameel has given me the idea to try out butt-clenches while using a thrusting motion in order to observe how it affects the things near PONR. Now I usually use some form of butt-clenching near ponr simply because it brings allot of pleasurable sensations but since it is mostly instinctively I didn't much paid the attention. So here are my observations on that:

During my edging session yesterday I observed the butt-clenching and I noticed two distinct ways I perform it. First one is by clenching the buttocks and performing a kegel hold, and the other one is by performing a reverse kegel hold. To this day I didn't even notice that I actually did a reverse kegel hold in my edging routines as a part of a thrust. The kegel variation is the one with much more sensations, while the one with reverse kegel is also but it has much more control.

I also while lying down on the side tried to thrust without using the buttocks to clench and noticed that I reached PONR much faster. It seems that the buttock are used as a sort of stabilizer which takes on the tension.

One thing to note also, while using reverse kegel with out the butt-clenching I will be mostly driven to ponr, but when using it with a butt-clench I will slightly move away or "stay" where I am.

In conclusion butt-clenches with a reverse kegel (that is done instinctively by me) indeed stabilizes and even lowers the arousal/sensations therefore preventing rapid arousal rise and eventual premature ejaculation.

Do note however that doing butt-clenches to early in the session will have different effect, in other words it will move you from outer rim to inner rim too fast, so plan ahead.

[Minuteman]

Today I had an interesting session, I was going to write about something else but this seems like a good topic for today.

I woke up and decide to edge, I was in some foul mood so I decided to pick myself up with a good edging session (it works pretty well), so I started to edge while I was still flaccid and after some work I got erect. Now as some know in the morning most of us are much durable when it comes to edging so I quickened the pace in order to start feeling some good sensations, since I have a fine control I am able to take some "risks" here and there and not go over PONR, but now I just passed the PONR and went strait to ejaculation, which I by force of habit tried to stop by preforming a DO (a potential bad habit by the way) which ended up being a partial retro ejaculation that left we feeling very uncomfortable. At first I was very annoyed by this, bit a short time after that I started laughing, I mean it was a failure of a session in such comic proportions that once cannot but laugh, and if experienced enough learn from it.

So in this post I will deconstruct the key points, however obvious, of were has this fascinating session gone wrong and what to actually do instead.

So first I have woken without the erection, most of the times this doesn't happen but when for example dealing with stressful situations it tends to happen with much frequency. It is exactly then that I need the pick up more than usual, and even if not, just because one does not get a morning wood doesn't mean that he should abstain from morning edging.

The way to deal with that is to have at least a little bit of arousal as a start up. Normally when you are with a partner this fixes itself, but when you are alone it might prove harder. Since you are somewhat still in a dream like state fantasies you come up with can actually affect you to a greater degree, so if you can use them like one should use porn as a initial spark, fantasize until you are at least a little bit aroused or get an erection and then just stop and focus on the sensations.

The thing is that without at least a little arousal your body doesn't "conduct" the pleasurable sensations and you start to rush nearer to PONR in order to feel them so that you can feel good which is a mistake almost always.

But sometimes fantasies simply wont come, or they tend to be mixed with other things you don't quite like to have fantasies mixed with. Here we come to a second major point that I have talked way too much about, gradualness. If you cannot use your fantasies to up yourself then start edging until you are erect and then continue to SLOWLY edge, the arousal will come with time usually even 2-5 minutes but since one trait of people with premature ejaculation is that we are inpatient we just give up and start pumping. A good way to induce that gradualness is described in detail in the previous post.

Now sometimes it is enough for me to simply come near PONR in the morning and I feel full of energy and ready to face the day (usually I finish the edging session either before sleep or the next day), but more often than not you also need the relaxation effect that ejaculation provides. Now the thing is that that effect only occurs if I ejaculate sometime after 20-25 minute mark, if it is earlier or premature it will just make me annoyed and unsatisfied most of the time.

Is funny how, with all this experience with dealing with this things I still fall for the same things. This goes to show just how strong the force of habit actions leading to premature ejaculation are, that even years of fixing it cannot fully fix it. What I want to say it, people with premature ejaculation must face the fact that it will still happen only way way less then before and instead of going into the downward spiral, try to outline the points that you did wrong and let is serve simply as a reminder that if you don't respect some things you will simply end up unsatisfied, and that sometimes premature ejaculation will simply happen and the bigger deal you make out of it the bigger deal will it actually be, even though it really is not.

The other part concerns the DO attempt I had, as the icing on the cake I had and didn't like. It takes a lot of practice and actually performing DOs consistently over a greater span of time to actually be able to DO on reaction, granted some people can just do it (I was able to do it, but only when I was in top condition for DOing), but for most of us it is practice. Now since I was experimenting with many other things I stopped DOing a while ago since I wanted to focus on other things, and logically my strength and timing suffered because that. Since I have a good technique I could actually ignore that to a point and with preparations I can clean DO even now, but even so it is not a good idea.

Instead of reacting to ejaculation spasm, you should prepare, anticipate or even induce ejaculation spasm so that you can deal with it on your terms. This requires much less practice but sill requires strength, timing and technique. So don't react to but anticipate, or you will end up having a very bad session.

[Minuteman]

Pelvic floor balance has always been an important topic here, but maybe it is time to observe a bigger picture when it comes to muscle balance, or more precisely posture.

I am a person whose activity mostly revolves around sitting and mostly using the computer, it has been like that for quite some time. In the last several months I have turned my attention much more to my body development via workouts and with it educating myself on the specific of it. Trough those actions I have become aware that my posture is called kyphotic-lordodic posture or more commonly known as anterior pelvic tilt.

So it would be interesting to see how many members on this forum that have premature ejaculation also have anterior pelvic tilt. While this might not be the most important cause of premature ejaculation it just might be one of those things that is making it worse. Since I plan to correct this to the point it actually can be corrected via exercises I will also report back on its eventual effects to my ejaculation control.

It is obvious to many that being physically active will improve their stamina what I am most interested now is what should be the exercises that people with premature ejaculation should do on the whole body scale that can positively affect lasting time.

Abdominal muscles probably have an important role since they affect the pelvic tilt and by some extension probably the pelvic floor balance. Also leg muscles affect it since the stronger they are the easier are certain sexual positions, same goes for the arms. Well developed and relaxed shoulders and nearby muscles should decrease the tension that collects from stress and bad posture (in my case kyphosis).

As some member of this forum noticed, running also increases lasting time. I also noticed that cold showers (which I started doing 2-4 weeks ago) also increase control in many ways.

The more time pases and the more experience I have, the more I am certain that in order to really fix premature ejaculation in a permanent way at least physically a certain full body workout routine is needed as much (if not more) than the pelvic floor routine.

As time pases I also notice that in the long run the effects of pelvic floor exercises like kegels and such start to be less and less important as the more traditional exercises are having better longer lasting effects, and that at the end long term edging brings more benefits. In way it is like coming full circle but with a lot more knowledge.

Of course those are just some predictions and assumptions , I still have allot of things to test out before I can boldly claim such things. In the end there will probably be some kind of "middle road" solution that requires a little bit of everything.

There are still habit and psychological causes though that won't make this too easy, but with a body full of confidence and good posture and allot of discipline it might be possible.

The only thing this reinforces is that there is no fast cure for premature ejaculation in a way that there is not fast cure for the bad posture.

[hoochiNn]

MM, can you link some pictures as example of that "anterior pelvic tilt"? Why do you think that cold showers help with PreE?