Common mistakes

[ThirdArm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThirdArm]

Hey guys,

I've noticed a few threads pop up about guys like myself - early 20s, never had a girlfriend, never had sex or been kissed, etc. I thought it may be constructive to share some of our thoughts on the subject. I'll start. Please feel free to add your own opinions and experiences.

- Placing too much value in a particular girl too early on. In its worst stage, some call this 'one-itis.' I think that sometimes the idea of a girl being a perfect fit begins to overcomes the logical need to actually get to know her better. Say she's attractive, friendly, likes music, etc. She may seem great, but what about her core values? Basically this occurs when a guy assumes that a girl is great for him, before learning enough about her.

- Lack of sexual tension. This one especially applies to me personally, and perhaps others will agree. Early on, I thought that being less sexual than my male peers made me more gentlemanly. And yes, being perverted is not attractive. But it's okay to generate a bit of sexual tension with women of interest. Now, I view this as being comfortable and unapologetic with one's sexual desires. Yes, it's natural and acceptable to be sexual. Seeming non-sexual led me to....you guessed it, non-sexual relationships.

- Numbers game. Not meeting enough potential women. There could be any number of reasons why an attractive girl wants nothing to do with a certain guy. Meeting lots of women increases the probability of meeting compatible ones.

- Lack of direct approach. Along the same lines as lack of sexual tension. Like a girl? Then don't base the relationship off being a study-buddy, her errand runner, or a listening ear for her problems. Is it wrong to do helpful things? It's fine, but not if the relationship is exclusively based on these matters. That sends the [wrong] message that your primary purpose is to do the aforementioned tasks, and it's better to be honest about your own self-interest right off the bat. Honesty and self-interest are good, not selfish.

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That's all I have for now, but I may think of more. I've dedicated this entire summer to reprogramming my beliefs about myself and about how I view relationships with women, among other self-improvements. Some of the most important realizations on my end have been that it's not too late to change and that it's not wrong for me to prioritize my own self-interests.

EDIT: I forgot to add that there are some more positive reasons, too. Plenty of guys at college probably just go party hopping and hook up with tipsy/drunk chicks. If that's not your gig, there's one more venue that's not open to you (and it's fine to not be into that sort of thing).

[Cantona7 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cantona7]

Great post ThirdArm.
Self-realization is one of the best things that could ever happen to you.

[ThirdArm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThirdArm]

Thanks cris_jos. Definitely trying to be introspective here, and seek answers.

One more thought: A lot of guys who are successful with women from an early age claim that their cocky/flirtatious ways come naturally. I think there's a lot of truth to the idea that some guys certainly do pick up on these things in a seemingly natural way. However, attraction still has components that are better thought of as a skill set, rather than a natural occurrence that is either present or absent.

For example, some people are naturally good at math, and they can't understand why other [non-math-oriented] people can't solve problems as efficiently. The same way someone can learn math, someone can learn attraction.

That's why some of the best teachers are actually guys who struggled early on. They get where other guys are coming from when they're having a tough time, whereas guys who were quick learners don't necessarily have the perspective of numerous past failures.

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Anyway, I wanted to give this thread one more bump to see if there are any other additions out there to the ideas I already posted. Thanks.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

I am definitely going to agree with a lot of it because that is how I am. I want to find the right girl and bar/party scene isn't my scene. Plus I am a wuss to actually ask a girl out.

Just have to get out more and figure some more things out I guess.

[sandiego27 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sandiego27]

I've had the best success with women when I am 100% happy with myself. It's weird how when you feel great about yourself and are not even looking for a girl that you end up finding one, meanwhile if your sad/depressed/in-a-rut and feeling lonely and yearning for some girl is when you don't have any success.

Don't let the fact that your single create this gloomy outlook where your bitter and angry about dating in general (I've had my dark periods of the single-guy blues when I refused to go out and socialize and would opt to stay home and drink alcohol). Do things that make you happy, get involved in your hobbies, focus on bettering yourself. When your not even looking for a girlfriend is usually when you find one, especially since you could care less because your too focused on bettering yourself.

And if your hobbies are social, that can help you to meet new people. For instance I wanted to learn how to surf about 6-7 years ago so I got a board and started to goto the beach whenever I could. In no time at all I was able to stand up and ride waves into the shore, I was getting lots of cardio in so I was losing weight and looking good, and I was talking/meeting other people at the beach, female and male. This lead to being invited to parties with random people I would have never meet, and hooking up with girls I'd pickup on the beach. Sadly I've let myself go over the last couple years and haven't been to the beach in several years, but I remember how happy I was and long to get back there. Time to do another round of P90x to get my beach-bod back

Working out does wonders for your confidence, but it's even better when it's a fun hobby that creates social situations like Surfing/Bike Riding/Skate Boarding/ect...

[TheSperminator Member of the Month Oct 12 Find all posts View Profile Close TheSperminator]

Now that is something that never happened to me. I'm sure for a lot of guys it did, but not with me. That "just go out pure to have fun and you'll bump into a girl" .. It NEVER happened to me. The only times I had succes with women (and I'm an above average looking guy) was when I had the balls to go up to them and talk to them. When I was prepared and thought "how am I gonna pull this off" .. It's unhealthy in a way, but when I prepare my conversations with a girl I can focus on a lot more things like being calm, intonation, etc. (and no, I'm not a pick-up artist, those are just things that are important)

And, when I go out, I can't just go out and "not look for a girl" .. When I'm with my pals, the only subject we mostly talk about is the hot women who are in that same room. I really can't go out "not looking for a girl" .. It's always on my mind (when I go out).

Just my 2cents

[wand-extendio Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wand-extendio]

Hey guys,

I've noticed a few threads pop up about guys like myself - early 20s, never had a girlfriend, never had sex or been kissed, etc. I thought it may be constructive to share some of our thoughts on the subject. I'll start. Please feel free to add your own opinions and experiences.

- Placing too much value in a particular girl too early on. In its worst stage, some call this 'one-itis.' I think that sometimes the idea of a girl being a perfect fit begins to overcomes the logical need to actually get to know her better. Say she's attractive, friendly, likes music, etc. She may seem great, but what about her core values? Basically this occurs when a guy assumes that a girl is great for him, before learning enough about her.

- Lack of sexual tension. This one especially applies to me personally, and perhaps others will agree. Early on, I thought that being less sexual than my male peers made me more gentlemanly. And yes, being perverted is not attractive. But it's okay to generate a bit of sexual tension with women of interest. Now, I view this as being comfortable and unapologetic with one's sexual desires. Yes, it's natural and acceptable to be sexual. Seeming non-sexual led me to....you guessed it, non-sexual relationships.

- Numbers game. Not meeting enough potential women. There could be any number of reasons why an attractive girl wants nothing to do with a certain guy. Meeting lots of women increases the probability of meeting compatible ones.

- Lack of direct approach. Along the same lines as lack of sexual tension. Like a girl? Then don't base the relationship off being a study-buddy, her errand runner, or a listening ear for her problems. Is it wrong to do helpful things? It's fine, but not if the relationship is exclusively based on these matters. That sends the [wrong] message that your primary purpose is to do the aforementioned tasks, and it's better to be honest about your own self-interest right off the bat. Honesty and self-interest are good, not selfish.

--

That's all I have for now, but I may think of more. I've dedicated this entire summer to reprogramming my beliefs about myself and about how I view relationships with women, among other self-improvements. Some of the most important realizations on my end have been that it's not too late to change and that it's not wrong for me to prioritize my own self-interests.

EDIT: I forgot to add that there are some more positive reasons, too. Plenty of guys at college probably just go party hopping and hook up with tipsy/drunk chicks. If that's not your gig, there's one more venue that's not open to you (and it's fine to not be into that sort of thing).

I agree with every word you have written, i also find it really annoying going out with guys in relationships asking you when you are making your move every min

[TheSperminator Member of the Month Oct 12 Find all posts View Profile Close TheSperminator]

I agree with every word you have written, i also find it really annoying going out with guys in relationships asking you when you are making your move every min

Yes! This also annoys me a lot!

I'm still a virgin and my best friend always teases me .. When I turned 18: "dude, you're a man now, it should happen this year" .. Or, when is it gonna happen? etc.

When we get in a wordfight, he always says things like "Yeah, but atleast I've had someone to fuck with". Things like that..

I'm seriously thinking of ditching him. I can't stand it anymore at times.

Last weekend he kissed a girl, I had a normal night, nothing special. He starts to brag like hell, gets very dominant, sometimes seeks fights with other guys. I f-ing hate it! I saved him a couple of times already from fights. I explain to him don't do it etc. he just never learns. When he's drunk, he's unstoppable.

I really made him. Thanks to me he has friends. Thanks to me he's accepted. Thanks to me he has now a girl (I kissed with a girl and I got to know her girlfriend and suggested she should talk with my best friend, now they're almost together).

It sickens me sometimes. His parents are good friends with my parents. I just don't know what to do sometimes.

When I have eyecontact with a girl. He starts to say she's looking at him. He is constantly eyefucking her from then on. I freaking hate it.

and yes, I'm a bit jealous. He fucked some ugly ones but atleast he had some. I can remain my calm, but when I get home I sometimes just want to ditch him.

Sorry for the ranting.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Good posts Third Arm. If your "friend" is not respecting you that is the time to ditch him S.

[EraStyle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EraStyle]

Yes! This also annoys me a lot!

I'm still a virgin and my best friend always teases me .. When I turned 18: "dude, you're a man now, it should happen this year" .. Or, when is it gonna happen? etc.

When we get in a wordfight, he always says things like "Yeah, but atleast I've had someone to fuck with". Things like that..

I'm seriously thinking of ditching him. I can't stand it anymore at times.

Last weekend he kissed a girl, I had a normal night, nothing special. He starts to brag like hell, gets very dominant, sometimes seeks fights with other guys. I f-ing hate it! I saved him a couple of times already from fights. I explain to him don't do it etc. he just never learns. When he's drunk, he's unstoppable.

I really made him. Thanks to me he has friends. Thanks to me he's accepted. Thanks to me he has now a girl (I kissed with a girl and I got to know her girlfriend and suggested she should talk with my best friend, now they're almost together).

It sickens me sometimes. His parents are good friends with my parents. I just don't know what to do sometimes.

When I have eyecontact with a girl. He starts to say she's looking at him. He is constantly eyefucking her from then on. I freaking hate it.

and yes, I'm a bit jealous. He fucked some ugly ones but atleast he had some. I can remain my calm, but when I get home I sometimes just want to ditch him.

Sorry for the ranting.

I am in a similar situation, only my friend isn't a douche. He wants to help me out, but since he has moved from my town, it's not so easy anymore.

The problem with me is that I don't go to parties and such. I don't like it. I can go out of course with friends, but as soon as I hear "let's go to a part there", "I heard there's a party in...", etc. I instantly shut down and want to go home or "catch you later". I don't drink alcohol either, something probably 90% of my generation do where I live. I also didn't grow up as a kid with girls around my neighborhood and as I got older, I was too busy with sports and such.

I guess I am a little introvert, although I have absolutely no problems talking to anyone. One more problem is that I want the most beautiful ones.

Almost every night, I think "next week, I'm going to try going out to get to know some girls. I'm tired of being a virgin and I'm tired of being alone and not knowing a girl real close". Next week comes, and I do other stuff instead. I actually feel lonely sometimes. I do have lots of guy friends, but it's not enough.

Sorry for the little random rant as well. It's just that I found this thread just now, while sitting here in the middle of the night, nodding my head to these posts.

[Nihilanth Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nihilanth]

I was like that, had phases when I was ok and when I was fucked up. Last one was about 3 months ago and it didn't went well for me. She already has a boyfriend and it's rubbing it but in a non conspicuous way and she WANTS to stay in contact (don't know the fucking reason for it, staying in contact with your ex is like staying in contact with your kidnapper) and she's throwing the guilt bombs if it's not on her terms. She likes me, but she doesn't want to have anything with me (also have to listen how her boyfriend is great) so I had to get rid of her so I faked a few things to get rid of her. I know it's not the right way, but I do what I must, not what is right. It's better for her also. She won't be contacting me anytime sooner. Basically, I reduced our "relationship" to my mistake. She was hurt a little bit by my words, but she has a boyfriend, he can comfort her. To tell the truth, it's a bit... Not painfull, more disturbing to remember anything about her. It breaks my concentration and I hate that feeling.

In the meantime I have learned quite a few things which changed me. Also several things happened to me which are giving me an edge, a big one, and I'm concentrating to use that to full extent. I have learned how to supress my social needs and I'm doing that unconsciously which is useful since I maintain constant level of concentration. Also, link between body and mind is better and I'm going to use it. Also, some of my female friends asked me to show them my penis and their comments were very positive so I'm PEing just for the sake of it. My size is sufficient, many guys here are working their way to get where I am or even smaller. I should be satisfied with this, maybe I'll increase it a few cm, but I'll concentrate on more important stuff.

[Chargeit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chargeit]

You guys need to get over yourselves. If your nowhere near a 10 then don't expect to have the relationship gods to drop a 10 on you.

Really if your in your 20's and haven't manged to idiot your way into some then your expectations are even too high, or you've let opportunity pass you by time and time again.

I've noticed a disturbing number of guys who are full grown adults yet have never know a women. I hate to say it but its going to get harder for you the older you get.

There's nothing magical about sex. Sex is just something people do to procreate. Stop putting it on a unachievable pedal stool.

Don't be a weirdo and obsess over one chick. If that chick you want doesn't want you screw her. There's billions of fish in the sea, focus on one too long and the rest may pass you by. No pussy is gold.

Lower you expectations. There are qualities beyond looks, find these in women and your choices will broaden. Oh beyond the fact the more homely of women can be some of the biggest freaks under the sheets.

Don't worry about what others think. Get out there find a women who you get along with and stick with her. Sex is all gravy but even the hottest of sex cools down over the years. Find one you get along with and after it cools there will still be enjoyment to be had from common interest. Don't think that sex will always keep you together. Relying on sex will one day leave you starting across the room at someone you no longer find attractive and have nothing in common with.

Really guys get out there and get some. Being a 25 year old virgin is bad enough, don't be the 40 year old virgin.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

A little more blunt than I would have put it Chargeit, but you are right with some of those things and a little wrong with others.

I am one of those guys in his twenties and one of those guys that will soon to be 25 and is a virgin. While I have been in 3 relationships, all of them were long distance and never got the chance for anything sexual nor anything more than talking.

I also do not like how easy you and some other people here make meeting women sound. While it may come easy to you and others for someone like me who is extremely shy and who doesn't get out much for myself, let alone to meet someone, plus a life that didn't allow me to have such experiences while growing up, it is hard.Sure I may have probably let experiences slip by, I only count about three, but for some guys and even girls, although less so for the later gender, it is just harder for some to meet people.

There is more to each persons experience, or lack there of, with women and relationship than putting someone on a pedestal, high expectations, what others think, or being too into ourselves.

[ThirdArm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThirdArm]

Charge, you're right about a lot of things, but don't oversimplify this into a bunch of guys who just couldn't find the nerve to make a move.

Often times a few false premises can screw someone up. Being raised to believe that it's 'dirty' to sexually escalate, being raised as a people pleaser (thus failing to pursue one's own desires), having a handful of difficult disappointments...you name it. Fix the underlying causes and you fix the situation.

[Brandon85 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Brandon85]

A lot of things of what troubles you...I can relate.

Growing up, in high school, I was the gawky nerdy kid that everyone picked on. I was too tall and too thin. Had wild crazy hair because I didn't know how to groom myself properly and was the butt of a lot of jokes. I am sure a lot of us has gone through high school with something similar.

College was a different thing. I filled out a little. My parents finally had some money and graciously got me braces so it wouldnt sound like a yeehaw was going to be my every first word. My mom still sewed and made a lot of my clothes as we/I were pretty poor.

I worked part time at a family restaurant by my college that was in a very wealthy area. Here I was, a kid from the ghetto in homemade clothes working in a pretty nice establishment that had (rich) college kids attending.

I had no idea how to be flirty as no girl ever showed an interest in me. Nor did I know any signs or clues of what they would have been. I recall one girl: tall, natural blonde with stunning blue eyes kept asking to get her a new fork because she kept dropping it. To me, it was just more work. To her, she was blatantly flirting with me. She even pushed it off the table right in front of me and we both watched it fall to the ground. She was a regular and did this to me all the time. I thought she was just being a bitch.

Anyway, fast forward a little and I am dating my first girlfriend. She was with her friends one night so I go and hang with my friends at some pizza place or another. We are sitting there and this pretty attractive blonde (for some reason blondes are attracted to me) leans right on our table between us. I thought "how rude". So, I lean my head over to one side to continue to talk with my friends. They were a little puzzled too. Well, she moves with me. So, I move again. And she follows me. Anyway, it was obvious after that she was trying to get my attention. My friends were puzzled and said "umm, why didn't you even talk to her?" I said "because I am dating so and so". They go "So"? It didn't occur to me that other girls could be interested in me while I was dating someone. I truly thought I had a 'taken' sign on my forehead.

Anyway, to summarize my point. Be observant of the people (girls) around you. There may be more than one girl who is showing you interest and you just don't notice because you are too focused on something else.

As for being attractive to women. Someone wrote that some are natural at it. Some aren't. And used the perfect analogy of math. I suck to high heaven at math. But excel in things like physiology. That's how I am wired. Call me an idiot savant. With more emphasis on the idiot part.

As for attracting females. I have no idea what I do to attract women. It just happens. I am just being myself all the time. And I guess that women like whatever they like.

It is not always a god send by the way.

It creates a lot of arguments with my girlfriend when a girl is blatantly flirting with me even when she is right next to me. Thank goodness I am still really oblivious and don't know that the girl was flirting with me. But my girl will still give me crap for flirting..which i don't do (on a conscious level anyway). And it is very difficult in my profession when a girl has hit on me more than blatantly. One woman asked me point blank to have sex with her with her parent right there who brought her. How's that for overwhelmingly uncomfortable and awkward? Like that one? Crazy or what?

I find the opposite happening. The older I get, the more women are attracted to me. I think that most women young and older like a man with true self confidence. Where he doesn't have to walk around like a peacock and strut his stuff (which he most likely doesn't have).

And there is some truth about attractiveness of women I've noticed. Beautiful women are more likely to be with really good looking guys and/or very wealthy successful guys. That is just what I've noticed and may not hold any merit.

But work hard on bettering yourself for yourself. When you make yourself shine so much, it will be impossible for others to not notice you.

Perhaps I will ask my girl what it is about me that she was attracted to. She is very pretty. Which is funny because one of my friends asked about how she looked before he has ever met her. I told him "oh, she's really pretty". He meets her, pulls me off to the side later and says "are you fucking kidding? She's like a fucking 12 out of 10. How the hell did you get her?". I just shrug my shoulders and say "uh, because she likes me."

Okay, going to try and go to sleep.