Honesty and Straightforwardness is Sexy

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

This is what I'm finding in my recent dating adventures. Honesty, knowing what I want and expressing it verbally, conversation and discussion of expectations, exploring boundaries before they become an issue... all of these are extremely sexy.

They create an atmosphere of communication, respect, and clarity. Everyone involved knows where they stand, and where the other stands. Everyone I'm involved with knows exactly what's going on, I know what they want from me, they know what I want from them, I know exactly where their boundaries are so that I can go right up against them and not cross them.

If I want something, or want to do something, I ask verbally first to see where their comfort level is with it. Doing this early on in the relationship gets them used to me asking and bringing up these things. It models the kind of communication I want. And it works.

I have a second date with [BA] on Monday. She wants me to go over in the afternoon. We're going to have dinner together, then sit by the fireplace, sip some whiskey, and listen to music. I had an idea that I wanted to give her a massage. I was considering just bringing the coconut oil. Then I decided it would be best to let her know my intentions beforehand, so I can see where she stands on the issue.

I texted her if she's interested in a massage. She gave an enthusiastic "yes!" So I told her I would bring some coconut oil. I'm so much less stressed and more "in the moment" because that's an uncertainty that was vocalized, and then moved into the realm of certainty; I know for certain she wants the massage, and that she's looking forward to it!

So, guys, if you want something, say it. Don't prance around the issue and try to guess. Communication works. And it works really well. Srsly.

[Cheetos Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cheetos]

See that is exactly how I was before, I would talk over everything with any female I was involved with. However my friend is trying to convince me that being spontaneous and in the moment is the more "sexy" way to do things because apparently it displays confidence. I have to say I agree with you though, being up front about your intentions makes any situation a hell of a lot more comfortable.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I think the thing is, you can discuss boundaries first, hypotheticals, what she's comfortable with and not. Not necessarily that you're asking permission every time you do something, but after discussing boundaries, you have an idea of the range of things she's comfortable with, and more importantly what she's uncomfortable with.

Then, when you decide to just go ahead and pull her into the bathroom stall for a quickie, you know exactly what she'll do and what she won't, and the mood will never be spoiled.

It really increases the chances that I'll be spontaneous, because I'm confident that I know what will and won't kill the mood, and I can walk that fine line so that it's exciting and thrilling, and also not a turn-off.


EDIT: It also increases her trust in you, that you took the time to find out, verbally, what her boundaries were, so that in the future, when you do decide to do something spontaneous, she knows that she's already communicated her boundaries to you, and she can fully and completely give in to the situation without any nervous thoughts of "oh, is he going to try and fuck me in the ass? Because I really don't want that."

[lclutchl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lclutchl]

Yup i agree with Qarzan. You find out what they want/will do first by talking and asking questions that doesn't mean you do everything right then. It just means when you are ready to do it you know before hand whether it will be ok or not. You can still have the spontaneity and the comfortability of knowing its ok . Win Win

[somebodyelse Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somebodyelse]

See that is exactly how I was before, I would talk over everything with any female I was involved with. However my friend is trying to convince me that being spontaneous and in the moment is the more "sexy" way to do things because apparently it displays confidence. I have to say I agree with you though, being up front about your intentions makes any situation a hell of a lot more comfortable.

Your friend is right for a majority of women in the united states and around the world. We have to remember, Qarzan lives a life of pluralism. He sleeps with many women, many of those women sleep with many other men and women themselves. The rules in the world he lives do not apply to standard monogamous dating.

The phrase "swept off her feet" can only happen when you do things she likes. You can get this information other ways rather than straight out asking "Can I touch your breast?"

Boundary finding is part of dating, as Qarzan has pointed out. HOW you find those boundaries, i generally disagree with. I have conversations in a way that seem innocent. You find out exactly what I girl likes and doesn't just by asking her questions... plugging into her sense of humor, and what she finds interesting.

I had a friend whom I found out specifically she was into Creampie porn, and creampies themselves inside of her. Like wait, how'd I even venture down this path? I don't even know! She said she really liked the idea of creampies... She loved the feeling of it and said, "Honestly, i think the best part about the sex, when I choose to get pregnant, will be that!"

so now I know she likes it inside... she was on birth control so I know she was getting it from her BF. But having a conversation like this with humor (we were laughing and giggling and having a great time) opened up information that I wouldn't have had... You don't have to ASK what you want to know... You just have to lead a conversation down that road and get the answer out of the hints dropped by her.

I will agree, with Qarzan, communication is ELEMENTAL in every relationship, but in my experience asking for permission to do anything kills the mood. I have had a pound of flesh extracted for such transgressions, and from my OWN experience, it's a BAAAAAD idea.

Sure, make sure she knows she's going to get a massage when she comes over (though, 9 times out of 10, she's ALREADY planning on doing something naughty if she comes over your house super late)... You kind of take away a woman's sexuality and her feeling of being "bad" when you ask "is it already if I lick you down there?"

She should be woman enough to grab you under your arms and pull you back up if she doesn't want it... that's how I feel, at least. I like a powerful woman who I don't have to coddle and protect... She should be able to voice what she likes and be able to say no.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I really don't know why everyone thinks I'm advocating asking permission for absolutely everything. The only time it comes up with that wording is when other people express their interpretations of what I've said. Many times I'm asking for experience, not permission.

"Hey, have you tried this? What was it like for you? Why did/didn't you like it?"

"Oh, I've done this before. I really liked it. I liked it because [go into detail]."

"I really like it when [talk about something I like]."

It's typically not put in the phrasing "Can I touch your breast?" And then a second later, "Can I take off your panties?" It can be as simple as saying something like, "If you're uncomfortable with anything, tell me to stop, and I'll stop."

If anyone here is into BDSM, it's a similar kind of communication. It builds trust and respect. And, yes, it applies equally to monogamous communication.

[somebodyelse Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somebodyelse]

I want to say, though. I don't say anything negative about Qarzan's approach...

If you are aiming to live that lifestyle, that's what you have to do. I think it's a novel idea... I used to believe in verbal affirmation.

If I were aiming to have multiple women and freedom to do whatever with them and them having freedom to do whatever they want with other men and women, then I'd live by Q's code. He's figured that out. He's the man in that world. Can't take it from him, I respect his "Gangster"

I, however, like unprotected sex with a woman I know isn't sleeping with anyone else, or at least the agreement of her not sleeping with someone else. That feels more intimate, more comfortable, more personal. Knowing I'm getting something a lot of guys want from her. If she fails to make that commitment that's grounds for termination of our intimacy contract.

I don't disagree, as I said, with Qarzan's style. If it works for him, that's awesome. However, if you don't want that, you probably so stick to what works for the world you want.

we have to remember if we want a girl to be monogamous to us, we have to give them what they want. make them only want us. You do that by giving her what she needs. Women want you to read their minds. the best way to do that is learn what makes her tick by actually talking to her and LISTENING to her... using what you learned about her to make her think you're the best pick.

[somebodyelse Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somebodyelse]

I really don't know why everyone thinks I'm advocating asking permission for absolutely everything. Many times I'm asking for experience.

"Hey, have you tried this? What was it like for you? Why did/didn't you like it?"

"Oh, I've done this before. I really liked it. I liked it because [go into detail]."

"I really like it when [talk about something I like]."

It's typically not put in the phrasing "Can I touch your breast?" And then a second later, "Can I take off your panties?" It can be as simple as saying something like, "If you're uncomfortable with anything, tell me to stop, and I'll stop."

If anyone here is into BDSM, it's a similar kind of communication. It builds trust and respect. And, yes, it applies equally to monogamous communication.

That I agree with...

I wholeheartedly agree with.

Establishing the notion that you ARE NOT going to take advantage of her is absolutely imperative.

I have said "Tell me if you don't like this... Let me know what you want." When doing things. body language speaks as loud as words too. Guys sometimes miss the "close off" cues.

And as strange as it sounds... NO MEANS NO!

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I don't disagree, as I said, with Qarzan's style. If it works for him, that's awesome. However, if you don't want that, you probably so stick to what works for the world you want.

we have to remember if we want a girl to be monogamous to us, we have to give them what they want. make them only want us. You do that by giving her what she needs. Women want you to read their minds. the best way to do that is learn what makes her tick by actually talking to her and LISTENING to her... using what you learned about her to make her think you're the best pick.

Yes, ok I understand now. I agree with this, too. Live the life you want. If you want a life with this kind of communication, then do it. For me, it works, because there is no guesswork. It makes learning about each other so much more efficient.

[OA] is 3,000 miles away. We've spent only a few hours together, physically, but because we've been in constant contact with each other, and explore boundaries verbally, I know exactly what to do when I see her, what she wants, and what she doesn't want.

And it's true, it works with some women, and is a turn-off for others. Simply put, I have to decide, those who are turned off by it, do I want relationships with them? I'm making a choice and living by it. Those who do not agree can go elsewhere. And they do.

[somebodyelse Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somebodyelse]

Yes, ok I understand now. I agree with this, too. Live the life you want. If you want a life with this kind of communication, then do it. For me, it works, because there is no guesswork. It makes learning about each other so much more efficient.

[OA] is 3,000 miles away. We've spent only a few hours together, physically, but because we've been in constant contact with each other, and explore boundaries verbally, I know exactly what to do when I see her, what she wants, and what she doesn't want.

And it's true, it works with some women, and is a turn-off for others. Simply put, I have to decide, those who are turned off by it, do I want relationships with them? I'm making a choice and living by it. Those who do not agree can go elsewhere. And they do.

That's the only way to live Mon Ami... You got it figured out.

[islander Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close islander]

I wish the guy wasn't so open
Every little emotions and thought I have to listen to. If that's how girls are no wonder some men go to the nothing box. My nothing box is alive and well :-)

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Honesty and straightforwardness, FTW!

You want something? Ask for it. Don't demand it, ask for it. They may say yes, they may say no. The only way you're going to get a yes is if you ask.

So, update, I'm still seeing [VJ] and [OA]. I've just started seeing a new partner, [CS]. She's absolutely amazing. We have crazy-awesome, clear honest vulnerable communication with each other. About sex, emotions, commitments to each other... everything. On our first date, which lasted 3 days, I felt like we accomplished more in terms of intimacy, developing our relationship, and clarifying intentions, than a lot of other people do in their entire lives.

What we've created is a relationship of honesty, vulnerability, love, appreciation, and... amazing sex. It started with me being honest and straightforward. If I had a question on my mind, I asked it, responsibly.

And that's the key: asking responsibly. This means taking care of how the other person hears your question so that they hear it exactly as you intend it to be heard, with nothing added and nothing taken away.

I often reveal my insecurities to [CS]. The thing is, they don't appear as demands for her to do anything about them. They're just revelation of my insecurities.

Here's an example of exchanged messages. I'm providing them here so that people can see an example of what this kind of communication looks like. [CS] is all about having a positive impact in the world, and she strives to hide nothing, so sharing this on this forum with the intent of showing people what it looks like is the kind of thing she generally approves of. This is also a product of who I am, and who [CS] is, and who we are together. It doesn't have to look like this, but I think all of the elements of intimacy and vulnerability in revealing insecurity are here, without placing a demand on, or trying to manipulate, the other.

----------------------------------

[CS]: You asked if I'm comfortable with you saying you're falling in love with me. Are you comfortable with saying it? Are you comfortable with feeling it?

Q: I love being with you. And I'm glad we can give each other the space and freedom to operate as individuals, as well.
"Falling in love" can carry a lot of weight for some people. I also noticed you weren't saying it back, so I was wondering if there was anything there for you.
Or it could just be my expectation that you say it in return, and nothing else.
In which case, no you don't need to say it back.
I guess it just makes me feel vulnerable when I say it.
I'm going to take out the "I guess" part of that statement.
It just makes me feel vulnerable when I say it.

[CS]: I love being with you too and also love that we give each other the space and freedom to operate as individuals as well. That is so important.

Q: Ok further edit: remove "just", and "makes."
I feel vulnerable when I say it.

[CS]: Yes "falling in love" has historically held a certain meaning for me, a kind of "weight" I guess, though I'm in the process of exploring what it will mean for me in the future.
LOL!!! I love you for your edits. I love that you removed the just and makes. You are so so so so so so so so so so so so wonderful.

Q: Removing the excess words makes it more powerful.

[CS]: Thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for being willing to express your feelings. While I have not said "I'm falling in love with you" it's possible that whatever that means to you is actually how I feel about you, which is why it's helpful to understand what you mean distinct from what I think you may mean.

Q: Yes I'm not sure what it means to me, either. "Falling in love" was a concept introduced to me by a society I was born into, that taught monogamy and marriage.

[CS]: Yes, and that "falling in love" leads to or is associated with a certain future.
Please continue to be vulnerable. And continue to tell me when you're being/feeling vulnerable, which is also being vulnerable. Your vulnerability brings us closer and begets vulnerability from me. It creates intimacy and - perhaps ironically - safety.

Q: Another way to describe what I feel without using that phrase is that I am amazed at the person you are, see the good in you in all situations, and am compelled to maintain and deepen our relationship
Yes, you can count on me to bring vulnerability, and create trust and safety. I'm very good at identifying my comfort zone and breaking right through it.

[CS]: It is amazing to me how walls beget walls and vulnerability begets vulnerability, at least for me and I think for others.

----------------------------

Honesty, vulnerability, and straightforwardness is sexy guys. Really, really.

Notice how she didn't even answer my question. By the end of the exchange, it didn't even matter any more. Intimacy was created through vulnerability, and that's what mattered. I was satisfied at this point and switched conversation topics.

[Hound Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hound]

I have always been this way but in the past few years I have gotten flat out brutally honest with my thoughts if I can tell the woman will not mind a little filth. LOL I mean I am remaining respectful and what not but you would be surprised that complete strangers can be receptive to your thoughts if you just tell them. AGAIN THOUGH I have always been good at reading people and if I can tell a woman is thinking something close to me by here eye movement and facial expressions I will tell her just what I would like to do with her. May not happen immediately but it usually ends up in us hooking up and having a GREAT time even if it is only a temporary thing for us we still have fun.

[Hound Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hound]

I have been called a womanizer for this before but I find it hard to justify that definition if both parties are equally willing to hook up and know that there is no real intent of taking it any further. But hey we all have our opinions I guess.

[oversimplifier Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close oversimplifier]

Hey Hound, great point you brought up here:

"I will tell her just what I would like to do with her. May not happen immediately but it usually ends up in us hooking up and having a GREAT time..."

This is so true, at least in my experiences. When I flirt heavily with girls, border line x-rated, girls will deny me at first but after a few weeks, months or even years we end up hooking up. I see it like we're planting the idea in her head and she starts to envision the fantasy when she's alone and through persistence on my end, I end up scoring.

I've had this happen to a girl that I've known for along time. I was totally in the friend zone. Then one day I started treating her like my lover, like if we already had sex so the flirting was strong but I was calm and outcome-independent. Surely enough, she saw me as a different person and we ended up sleeping together and had a GREAT time!

Screw being indirect with girls, direct all the way and your never friend-zoned.