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Feminism... How Fair Is It Actually?

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  • Feminism... How Fair Is It Actually?

    Now when I say feminism I'm not talking about the new wave of feminist who believe that all men are born rapist. I'm talking about the real feminist, the ones who want equal rights. The ones who are generally intelligent and treat men and women equally.

    My question is rather trivial and concerns paying the bill during a first date or consequent dates. Do you feel that is it fair/unfair that women have equal rights with the addition of having a few perks? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of feminism?

    I understand there are gender roles in society, and when it comes to paying the bill, the custom is for a man to take the check. Are there any perks that are exclusive to men that comes from a woman?

    I'm not taking a stance on this issue yet as I don't have enough knowledge to make a conclusion, which is why you guys are here!

    Note: Lets assume, for sakes of arguing, that women have the same rights as men in the face of the LAW (important word here).
    Better to die quick,
    Fighting on your feet.
    Than to live forever,
    Begging on your knees.

  • #2
    I don't think that the man should always have to pay the bill, but I don't think a real feminist would claim that they should either. It's just that there are a lot of "feminists when it's convenient" out there. I'm sure the fact women make less than men for the same work will be brought up, but I'm not sure creating another double standard is going to fix the first one.

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    • #3
      I wish there were no gender roles in society, but think that sometimes women do the cause a disservice by trying to hold onto those perks. As Hooligan mentioned the guy usually picks up the check and another is that the guy always asks out the girl and always makes the first move. If the genders were equal then you would have girls approaching guys just as often, but that's not how it works and I think women enjoy the fact that they never have to put themselves out there and risk getting rejected.
      Starting as of 2/1/11: 6.4 BPEL x 4.8 MSEG (5.6 NBPEL)
      Just hoping to put together one full month of actually sticking to a routine and go from there.
      My goals mainly revolve around developing high EQ erections that last during sex.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Messerschmidt View Post
        I'm sure the fact women make less than men for the same work will be brought up.
        I've seen this argument so many times, but it is simply misleading. If it were actually true that women made less money, in a free market, some companies would strictly hire women for a lower labor cost. There are plenty of reasons why women make less money than men and it is not due to sexism. Also, the study says women make about 70 cents for every dollar, however it does not take into consideration same position jobs. The study is misleading and people are exaggerating it.

        Originally posted by Rando View Post
        I wish there were no gender roles in society, but think that sometimes women do the cause a disservice by trying to hold onto those perks. As Hooligan mentioned the guy usually picks up the check and another is that the guy always asks out the girl and always makes the first move. If the genders were equal then you would have girls approaching guys just as often, but that's not how it works and I think women enjoy the fact that they never have to put themselves out there and risk getting rejected.
        Feminism is the fight for equal rights, usually in relation to laws. So what about masculinity and femininity? I feel like these two things are important and can coexist with feminism. So my questions are, if it is not for societal gender roles, what is masculinity and femininity? And would paying the bill and approaching a women be considered part of being masculine? As I've mention in my original post, are there any perks that are exclusive to men that comes from a woman?
        Better to die quick,
        Fighting on your feet.
        Than to live forever,
        Begging on your knees.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think we do ourselves any favors by having rigid standards for femininity and masculinity. I hesitate to use words like "all" and "every" but I think in most of us there are both masculine and feminine aspects, and to try to fit into some preconceived notion of how someone of our gender should behave is to deny our individual nature. I happen to have a fair amount of money and because of this in many cases I'm going to pick up the tab. However, I'm not going to feel very equal if I'm dating a millionairess and she expects me to take care of everything becuase I am a man. We aren't just men and women, we all bring unique benefits and flaws into the relationships we have and those should be acknowledged.

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          • #6
            I don't think it's fair that they can touch my boobs and i can't touch theirs.
            Starting Size (09/2009): ~7"BPEL x ~5" MSEG
            Most Recent Measurement (08/13/2012): 8"BPEL x 5.5"MSEG
            Final Goal: When I'm told to stop.
            http://www.towelaroundtheworld.com/#/us

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            • #7
              Feminism's flaw is that it punishes men. There is no way around it. Feminism is not "for" men. It's for women, to better them, most often at the expense of men. Women who say this is restoring an equal balance are incorrect. Women have advantages in sexual reproduction that men don't. Women have claims to safety that men don't. Feminism is not interested in removing these benefits from women, but rather magnifying them by reducing the value of men. If a man were to claim equal sensitivity as a woman in the areas of safety and dating he would be called a pussy and shamed. Women can act like pussies because they actually have pussies to back them up.

              This isn't to say that one must believe in fairness or equality. This is just to say that if one values fairness or equality one cannot claim that feminism matches that value's goals.

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              • #8
                In my view 'Equality' has been achieved, no more campaigning necessary.
                Vulcan
                7.25 (start July 2009)>>>>>>8.125"BPEL (current)
                5.25 (start July 2009)>>>>>>5.75"EG (current)

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                • #9
                  I think that practices like body building and penis enlarging are feminist in a sense, in that we are presenting ourselves as sex objects just like women have traditionally been. It's far more equal than using money or power as leverage.
                  Starting stats: BPEL: 6.5" EG 4.5"

                  Aim: BPEL: 7.5" EG 5.5"

                  Would ideally want BPEL: 8.0" EG 6"

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                  • #10
                    Equal right is coming to the UK!!!

                    Women now have to retire at 65 like men do instead of them getting to retire at 60. And women live longer than men so we'll have to do something about that.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vulcan View Post
                      In my view 'Equality' has been achieved, no more campaigning necessary.
                      Oh no - on a lot of issues it's still waaaaaay apart. Pay disparity is still a huge issue. But on the flip side, many guys get the shaft when it comes to paternal rights.
                      There's still a very, very long way to go.
                      Old Gym Log - Tracking progress with the iLogPE App
                      "Wherever you go, there you are. Stay sexy, my friends."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by should've started sooner View Post
                        I think that practices like body building and penis enlarging are feminist in a sense, in that we are presenting ourselves as sex objects just like women have traditionally been. It's far more equal than using money or power as leverage.
                        My son would have a lot to say here. He is more up on feminism than I am. He has a real issue with the feminism of today. I don't read or watch anything about feminisim...he does. Thing is, he knows some of the shit men have done to me. Stunts they have pulled. My paying for things. Only 1 bought me clothes (his father). He was the one who wanted to do it, he enjoyed it and he got me to wear high heels! lol He took me out to dinner too. The best BF I ever had.

                        Anyway, men are not sex objects. I can't really explain it. It is just nature. And men cannot be sexually exploited. That is another thing that is just nature. Men are at the top of the ladder even if no one likes to say it because it isn't PC. Deep down we all know.

                        As far as paying for a meal...I've done it many times. I've paid for groceries, I've paid for gas and even ice cream! lol I can see going dutch as fair in some cases. Deep down I am sentimental and would love courting. Courting is a rare rare thing.

                        Don't get upset about anything I say here. You are still at the top. What I say that you may not like will not take that from you.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mistydawn View Post
                          ...And men cannot be sexually exploited....
                          Well you've just ruined my day...Thanks a lot

                          I would love to be sexually exploited

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree with GTO, there are many things that are not equal for men and women. I am not saying one has it better than the other. I know if my wife landed a 250 k job I would stay home and do the dishes with a damn smile on my face.
                            I like the fact that women can have a little of both worlds, just find one who does it with class and youll be the better for it. Do you really want a manly woman. Does she really want a totally pussified man. Nature has alot to do withit as well. I do however think that as far as the legal aspect goes it should be a bit more equaled out.
                            The biggest thing I have seen abused legally is the issue of child custody and support. I am going to cry now and stuff bon bons down my throat.
                            Going an inch and 1/2 deeper than before

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mistydawn View Post
                              My son would have a lot to say here. He is more up on feminism than I am. He has a real issue with the feminism of today. I don't read or watch anything about feminisim...he does. Thing is, he knows some of the shit men have done to me. Stunts they have pulled. My paying for things. Only 1 bought me clothes (his father). He was the one who wanted to do it, he enjoyed it and he got me to wear high heels! lol He took me out to dinner too. The best BF I ever had.

                              Anyway, men are not sex objects. I can't really explain it. It is just nature. And men cannot be sexually exploited. That is another thing that is just nature. Men are at the top of the ladder even if no one likes to say it because it isn't PC. Deep down we all know.

                              As far as paying for a meal...I've done it many times. I've paid for groceries, I've paid for gas and even ice cream! lol I can see going dutch as fair in some cases. Deep down I am sentimental and would love courting. Courting is a rare rare thing.

                              Don't get upset about anything I say here. You are still at the top. What I say that you may not like will not take that from you.
                              I agree that men can't really be sexually exploited and I'll give an example. Last night a random girl groped me at a bar in a pretty explicit way, and I didn't really care, lol. I know some women might scream bloody murder about that and maybe raise a scene if the roles were reversed, but guys simply like that kind of attention. I've also never really heard a case of a guy getting raped either.

                              I admire you for paying for a lot of your stuff and commiserate a little too that it sounds like you've had some bad experiences in relationships, but I think you experience is probably a bit rare. I bet if you looked at who pays most of the dating expenses, then a vast majority of the time it is probably the guy, unless the guy is kind of a deadbeat or the woman a lot more wealthy.

                              I agree that in a sense guys are probably on top, but most of the inequalities greatly benefit women (with maybe the exception of ability to get high level jobs at some firms) so it's debatable if being on top is even a good thing. An example is being in the military. I think it's set up where women are pretty much never front line infantry. If being at a far greater risk of dying is being on top, then I'll pass, lol. A lot of women could go to bars and never pay for a drink their whole lives, never have to approach a guy for a date and still get plenty, barely have to pay for dating expenses, be showered with gifts and vacations while not reciprocating to near the same degree, control sex in a relationship and so on.

                              Again, I hope I'm not offending anyone, but that is kind of the way I see it. In a sense, the guy is on top b/c he's the one who's usually deciding everything, but as the last paragraph shows, it isn't really an advantage anyway. I also think the USA is waaaay behind the curve as far as gender roles go. I think in a lot of cultures like northern Europe and Australia, it is very common place to "go dutch" in romantic relationships. Not surprisingly those are also among the most progressive countries.
                              Starting as of 2/1/11: 6.4 BPEL x 4.8 MSEG (5.6 NBPEL)
                              Just hoping to put together one full month of actually sticking to a routine and go from there.
                              My goals mainly revolve around developing high EQ erections that last during sex.

                              Comment

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